Hat @ 122 | 35.96m | 12s | Cidex Group | NORR

[IanO]

We simply do not have the density, walkability, small scale CRUs, complete streets, mixed-use and character buildings at the moment and while there are wonderful 'pockets' here and there, they are the exception.

Finally, the 'mindset', or not enough of it. I'm amazed at how many times on a nice day things are quiet, slow, without activity and yet there is a lot of automobile traffic and I am sure that WEM is packed. This comes in time, perhaps, but Edmonton continues to use its urban spaces for the odd festival or event or special occasion rather than regular destinations or use. But that needs walkable density, better/more efficient transit and more reasons to come to Central Edmonton if we want to see anything different. Hell, folks in my building often drive out of the core for shopping, groceries, coffee, dinner rather than walking down the street.

Kensington Market - Toronto

The Annex - Toronto

Leslieville/Beaches - Toronto

Plateau Mont Royal - The Mile End - Montreal

Mount Pleasant - Vancouver

West Village - Vancouver

Kensington - Calgary

The Exchange - Winnipeg * still working on traffic, but naturally blessed with 'the bones'

The Glebe - Ottawa

Again, Edmonton has its moments and bits and pieces, but it needs more stretches of activity, more street life and more regular use; its 'mainstreets' underwhelm vis a vis.

A few of my tours that showcase some of Edmonton's best.

Old Strath/Garneau

Edmonton - A 15km walk from Downtown to Whyte Avenue and back - SkyscraperPage Forum

skyscraperpage.com

Westmount/Oliver

Edmonton - River valley, top of bank, old houses and brisket - Part 2 - SkyscraperPage Forum

skyscraperpage.com

 

[itom987]

Curious, as I have not traveled all through Canada. What are some shining Canadian examples for this Oliver neighbourhood to aspire towards? And what constitutes "bones"?

The 'bones' refer to pre-war urban construction and infrastructure. Lacombe has good bones Ardrie has none.

 

[TAS]

I am ALL for improvements and aspirational thinking, but let's be realistic. here given the lack of bones.

Nevertheless, lots going for this district. It's a dense area with some great old buildings like Oliver School and Robertson-Wesley United Church along with one of the nicest community parks (Paul Kane) not to mention the nearby river valley where you can walk, bike, run, golf, skate and ski or sit.

The city and special event planners schedule major events like international bike races and the city marathon to pass through or along this picturesque district.

More density increasing residential projects are on the way as well as an LRT line running along the border. And this area has great walkability scores, tree-lined streets and an increasingly busy bike lane passing through.

There's a growing list of CRUs coming on stream including 10 from the Mercury apartment project alone and then just two blocks away is the community hub known as Oliver Exchange that is currently expanding. Nearby is the outdoor farmer's market. And the city has committed to major streetscape improvements along this area of Jasper Ave over the next 4 years.

It's a very unique area in Canada given its proximity to so much natural beauty and activities within a short walk and so many other great amenities within its borders.

Those pics of special Canadian street/neighbourhoods with 'bones' that you also posted do look great, although kind of all the same. I love them, though, too.

 

[thommyjo]

Nevertheless, lots going for this district. It's a dense area with some great old buildings like Oliver School and Robertson-Wesley United Church along with one of the nicest community parks (Paul Kane) not to mention the nearby river valley where you can walk, bike, run, golf, skate and ski or sit.

The city and special event planners schedule major events like international bike races and the city marathon to pass through or along this picturesque district.

More density increasing residential projects are on the way as well as an LRT line running along the border. And this area has great walkability scores, tree-lined streets and an increasingly busy bike lane passing through.

There's a growing list of CRUs coming on stream including 10 from the Mercury apartment project alone and then just two blocks away is the community hub known as Oliver Exchange that is currently expanding. Nearby is the outdoor farmer's market. And the city has committed to major streetscape improvements along this area of Jasper Ave over the next 4 years.

It's a very unique area in Canada given its proximity to so much natural beauty and activities within a short walk and so many other great amenities within its borders.

Those pics of special Canadian street/neighbourhoods with 'bones' that you also posted do look great, although kind of all the same. I love them, though, too.

If the existing Oliver pool & rink got upgraded to a really high quality local rec centre, this area would be killer for families. Anyone know what the plans are for those facilities?

Hat @ 122 will be a great addition. Is cidex also going ahead with the 124th project, or is that dead? Can’t remember. Hopefully this leases will with mercury & citizen, and the Edward all adding ~650ish units around the same time.

 

[IanO]

Amenity wise, there needs to be a walkable community hub and that is missing right now. The arena will be demolished and from what I am told there is a desire to retain a pool/community space along with an enhanced play/park.

CIDEX 124 is dead.

 

[David A]

First on my list would Vancouver's west end.

There are some things I like about Vancouver's west end, but I am also very mindful many of the older walk up apartments that provided affordable long term housing for people there were torn down to build nice expensive condos, making the affordable housing situation there worse and the area less diverse.

Btw here is what some others think about Vancouver.

Is Vancouver narcissistic? A global ranking suggests some humility is in order

Douglas Todd: Vancouver ranks 34 out of 48 cities in the Global Power City Index. Its leaders could do less preening and more innovating.

vancouversun.com

 

[Glenco]

We’re most held back by the “working environment,” which captures how relatively little Vancouverites labour and produce compared to people in other major cities. Also, our rents our high. (The index doesn’t measure average house prices against median wages, which is Vancouver’s ultimate Achilles heel of unaffordability.)

 

[Romanov]

We simply do not have the density, walkability, small scale CRUs, complete streets, mixed-use and character buildings at the moment and while there are wonderful 'pockets' here and there, they are the exception.

Finally, the 'mindset', or not enough of it. I'm amazed at how many times on a nice day things are quiet, slow, without activity and yet there is a lot of automobile traffic and I am sure that WEM is packed. This comes in time, perhaps, but Edmonton continues to use its urban spaces for the odd festival or event or special occasion rather than regular destinations or use. But that needs walkable density, better/more efficient transit and more reasons to come to Central Edmonton if we want to see anything different. Hell, folks in my building often drive out of the core for shopping, groceries, coffee, dinner rather than walking down the street.

Kensington Market - Toronto

The Annex - Toronto

Leslieville/Beaches - Toronto

Plateau Mont Royal - The Mile End - Montreal

Mount Pleasant - Vancouver

West Village - Vancouver








Kensington - Calgary

The Exchange - Winnipeg * still working on traffic, but naturally blessed with 'the bones'

The Glebe - Ottawa

Again, Edmonton has its moments and bits and pieces, but it needs more stretches of activity, more street life and more regular use; its 'mainstreets' underwhelm vis a vis.

A few of my tours that showcase some of Edmonton's best.

Old Strath/Garneau

Edmonton - A 15km walk from Downtown to Whyte Avenue and back - SkyscraperPage Forum

skyscraperpage.com

Westmount/Oliver

Edmonton - River valley, top of bank, old houses and brisket - Part 2 - SkyscraperPage Forum

skyscraperpage.com

Thanks for these examples. Some areas I will need to check out when I am in Toronto this summer.

I have been to Vancouver and Calgary plenty in the past few years. To say Oliver/Westmount is light years away from some of those examples seems off. West Oliver and Westmount has high potential and is already a dense and walkable area of the City and province. There are already community hubs like Paul Kane Park and Oliver exchange and the peace garden. There is also an interesting mix of architectural style and scale. A few key investments and time will do the area wonders - wider sidewalks, bike lane connections, new LRT station, new street oriented CRU's, residential units - it all seems to be coming down the line. Look at what developments such as substation, Oliver exchange or the Grand on 124 can do for vibrancy. I could easily see it surpassing Kensington in Calgary in terms of vibrancy (which isn't that great to begin with).

The tough part is that Oliver/Westmount has to contend with Unity square, Brewery District and Springwood. These CRUs have street facing parking lots and are a blight - but they are supported by the market. However I am hopeful that some of the smaller strip malls in the area can be redeveloped - such as with the MODA proposal for 107 Ave.

 

[IanO]

The more I visit Calgary the more I realize that they have far more neighbourhoods with established mainstreets and the developed density and urban features to support them. Again, 124st has a chance, but continues to lag with direct density, footfall, complete blocks and small scale CRUs.

Jasper Ave is more or less a mess.

 

[Romanov]

its 'mainstreets' underwhelm vis a vis

I want to recognize whyte/Garneau as well. I have been to the "coolest" neighbourhoods of Melbourne and would argue Whyte has got it going on. Coming out of covid it is seeing a bit of a Renaissance, maturing into an area for all times of the day. Whyte still has a long way to go, but I am hopeful that it will continue to compete "vis a vis" other Canadian mainstreets.

 

[Romanov]

The more I visit Calgary the more I realize that they have far more neighbourhoods with established mainstreets and the developed density and urban features to support them. Again, 124st has a chance, but continues to lag with direct density, footfall, complete blocks and small scale CRUs.

Jasper Ave is more or less a mess.

I can agree with you here. Calgary has more urban mainstreets to attract visitors - the demand for urban residential and thus urban retail is there. Edmonton has larger projects like 124 Street, Jasper and Whyte that will take time but can be great. Call me an optimist

 

[IanO]

I want to recognize whyte/Garneau as well. I have been to the "coolest" neighbourhoods of Melbourne and would argue Whyte has got it going on. Coming out of covid it is seeing a bit of a Renaissance, maturing into an area for all times of the day. Whyte still has a long way to go, but I am hopeful that it will continue to compete "vis a vis" other Canadian mainstreets.

Fiztroy has the built-form character that gives it a significant edge.

 

[Romanov]

Fiztroy has the built-form character that gives it a significant edge.

Agreed. Naked for Satan roof top on a rainy morning after strolling brunswick - good way to start the day.

 

[IanO]

For those less familiar with cool hoods in MEL, this is what we are talking about and using as a bar:

 

[David A]

The more I visit Calgary the more I realize that they have far more neighbourhoods with established mainstreets and the developed density and urban features to support them. Again, 124st has a chance, but continues to lag with direct density, footfall, complete blocks and small scale CRUs.

Jasper Ave is more or less a mess.

I haven't been to Calgary for a while, but I recall being disappointed some time ago when I visited Kensington and had heard it being compared to Whyte Ave. Nope - not even close.

However, I feel we could use a Stephen Ave downtown. Maybe 104 St will eventually be a bit of that. Obviously, we are a newer city with few nice older character buildings than every other city pictured and sadly not we are not always serious about keeping or fixing up the ones we have.

I would agree, Jasper Ave is a currently a mess. Our downtown grew when people were not thinking on a more human scale. However, things can be changed and improved on and it a few key changes can make a big difference. I have always been very optimistic about 124 St. It has great potential and I can see it slowly, steadily getting better.