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[Glenco]

This conversation reminds me of the hockey writers from Toronto who say Edmonton has a hard time attracting free agents then Zack Hyman leaves Toronto and signs with the Oilers as a free agent. In the same way Edmonton has to prepare itself to be attractive to tech companies and be prepared to take advantage of the situation when it presents itself. You can’t make a hockey player a free agent just by willing it and you cannot make a business relocate just because Patience is a virtue that will prevent making decisions based solely on a financial incentive and making sure it is the right fit.

 

[occidentalcapital]

A lot of stories being shared here, but I think you have to look at hard numbers. The CBRE tech report confirmed that Edmonton's tech sector is growing massively right now in terms of actual jobs, etc. They give income figures too. Edmonton ranked very well compared to other Canadian cities on jobs growth, income potential and education for tech sector. It sounds like a number of you went to university a few years ago... Don't mean to be harsh, but we have to look at the actual hard data rather than what your friends in university did or didn't do. I'm all for proposing solutions but I don't think it's helpful to just lament and complain about something that happened years ago. Or to talk down the actual success that the city is seeing.

 

[thommyjo]

A lot of stories being shared here, but I think you have to look at hard numbers. The CBRE tech report confirmed that Edmonton's tech sector is growing massively right now in terms of actual jobs, etc. They give income figures too. Edmonton ranked very well compared to other Canadian cities on jobs growth, income potential and education for tech sector. It sounds like a number of you went to university a few years ago... Don't mean to be harsh, but we have to look at the actual hard data rather than what your friends in university did or didn't do. I'm all for proposing solutions but I don't think it's helpful to just lament and complain about something that happened years ago. Or to talk down the actual success that the city is seeing.

Agreed. We have to look at numbers. Which is why rate of growth and unit growth needs to be remembered. Edmonton is growing fast, thats exciting. We also have way less and are growing by way less (unit wise) than elsewhere. Being smaller makes % nice. And its encouraging and worth celebrating and all that! Don't get me wrong. But we can't pretend it is what it is isn't. We are smaller and will continue to be smaller without a seismic shift and repositioning of our city.

Also, there's a different between a tech job at Intuit and Microsoft...

Same as the prior arguments about banking. Sure we have ATB and CWB. But comparing those to RBC and TD is silly. Its a different scale.

 

[CaptainBL]

I'm all for proposing solutions but I don't think it's helpful to just lament and complain about something that happened years ago. Or to talk down the actual success that the city is seeing.

There seems to be a theme that when something is critiqued or someone is being critical of a point or issue, it is sometimes confused as talking down or being negative. I do not see anywhere in which the previous posters were putting down success that Edmonton is seeing. If we can't be critical of the city's shortcomings, and there are several publicly documented and well known that have held Edmonton back for decades from reaching full potential, then the city will continue to lag its full potential while we pat ourselves on the back for being good enough. You can embrace success and be critical of what's needed to reach fuller potential at the same time - that's not talking down at the success.

 

[roe_]

Yeah. And just so everyone knows, I know that's a somewhat cynical and oversimplified take on things. But its still true at a macro. Micro scale there are tons of stand out, incredible people here building great companies. Jobber for example has killed it recently. But sadly, talent attracts talent, so the snowball effects happen. The best people usually want to be around the best people, which clusters them in a very small number of global cities.

[...]

To your point archited, I agree. There's a more blank canvas vibe to edmonton than elsewhere. Thats why I moved back here after living in Toronto and then landing a job with a company in downtown Vancouver. They let me work remote so I chose here. Family and friends played a big part, but also cause I love this city. I believe in edmonton, I love the underdog nature. And I also love the idea of helping to build a great city. Anyone can move to a great city like Vancouver. But its more fun to help build one.

Can't wait for the future city my kids will get to grow up in

Maybe it's just because I am a lawyer and parse language a little too closely, but you are saying two different things. On one hand you seem to arguing that clustered sectors attract all the best and brightest to the determent of other places, but then you acknowledge there are a range of reasons why a person might decide to live in Edmonton, including the chance to build something new. This is exactly my point -- Edmonton may not be Silicon Valley, it may not have huge Venture Funds like New York, but that doesn't make it bad or mean that the people here lack motivation or intelligence.

We all know the shortcomings of Edmonton, but there are plenty of opportunities and assets that we can build upon and improve. I wholeheartedly agree that we need to retain and attract young people, but that isn't the same as suggesting that the people who are already here are any less smart or successful.

 

[God]

Maybe the people who pay hugely inflated prices for small places are not as quite as smart as they think they are. Sometimes the people who put forward the image of success are just in debt up to their eyeballs and that good paycheque just goes to make the payments on everything and in the end they have nothing to show for it. I would be very cautious about being envious of people who appear to be successful, those appearances are not always accurate.

A truly motivated and ambitious person can be succesful in any number of places. Bill Gates didn't start his business in the Silicon Valley and Warren Buffet didn't stay in New York. There is a herd mentality, but there is a lot of illusion around it.

I agree with you. My statement was very generalized. There are great people everywhere. Even here in Edmonton. It’s just more of them decide to move to bigger cities like Vancouver and Toronto because there are more opportunities there for them.

 

[IanO]

A lot of stories being shared here, but I think you have to look at hard numbers. The CBRE tech report confirmed that Edmonton's tech sector is growing massively right now in terms of actual jobs, etc. They give income figures too. Edmonton ranked very well compared to other Canadian cities on jobs growth, income potential and education for tech sector. It sounds like a number of you went to university a few years ago... Don't mean to be harsh, but we have to look at the actual hard data rather than what your friends in university did or didn't do. I'm all for proposing solutions but I don't think it's helpful to just lament and complain about something that happened years ago. Or to talk down the actual success that the city is seeing.

Point being, we are doing much better at attracting and retaining than 'a few years ago', but comparatively speaking continue to lag comparative marketplaces... sometimes by an order of magnitude. That's a fact.

Having said that we should hold our head higher, continue to support/incubate/expand and better showcase the talent, education pipeline and attractiveness of this region.

But if I ever hear another story about Intuit or 'top 3 A.I.' again...

 

[ChazYEG]

Point being, we are doing much better at attracting and retaining than 'a few years ago', but comparatively speaking continue to lag comparative marketplaces... sometimes by an order of magnitude. That's a fact.

Having said that we should hold our head higher, continue to support/incubate/expand and better showcase the talent, education pipeline and attractiveness of this region.

But if I ever hear another story about Intuit or 'top 3 A.I.' again...

Qualitatively speaking, the U of A is, INDEED, top 3 in AI... But well, maybe we'll be able to boast about that when density comes, or something like this.

 

[occidentalcapital]

I recommend all read A Business History of Alberta by Henry C. Klassen - it is available online through a public library. You have to know where you come from to know where you are going. This city has major business roots, a trading culture, a meeting place for peoples and trade and new ideas. What it also has in addition to these things is a sense of civic culture and inclusive growth. Sometimes some mistake this as being less "competitive" or "cut-throat"... it is nothing of the sort, if you really know Edmonton.

 

[ChazYEG]

I recommend all read A Business History of Alberta by Henry C. Klassen - it is available online through a public library. You have to know where you come from to know where you are going. This city has major business roots, a trading culture, a meeting place for peoples and trade and new ideas. What it also has in addition to these things is a sense of civic culture and inclusive growth. Sometimes some mistake this as being less "competitive" or "cut-throat"... it is nothing of the sort, if you really know Edmonton.

Agreed on all accounts.
As @archited said, Edmonton has a white canvas feel, to me, that makes it possible to envision the city attracting/keeping young professionals, especially millennials and Gen Z, especially through the means of being a good place to live, raise children, inclusive and sustainable. We have a lot of space to grow on this, just need to start showing this to people in and out of Canada.

 

[thommyjo]

Maybe it's just because I am a lawyer and parse language a little too closely, but you are saying two different things. On one hand you seem to arguing that clustered sectors attract all the best and brightest to the determent of other places, but then you acknowledge there are a range of reasons why a person might decide to live in Edmonton, including the chance to build something new. This is exactly my point -- Edmonton may not be Silicon Valley, it may not have huge Venture Funds like New York, but that doesn't make it bad or mean that the people here lack motivation or intelligence.

We all know the shortcomings of Edmonton, but there are plenty of opportunities and assets that we can build upon and improve. I wholeheartedly agree that we need to retain and attract young people, but that isn't the same as suggesting that the people who are already here are any less smart or successful.

For being a lawyer, your lack of understanding nuance is confusing me...

Edmonton can both not be a major hub for tech and finance and lose thousands of young grads to major cities AND still have good reasons to live here and still have people stay.

But the MAJORITY of young people leave edmonton. Its just the facts. University educated people leave edmonton, especially if you remove the medical and government sectors. Tech, finance, etc leave edmonton. That was the original argument and I have no idea why people are pushing back on it haha. It shouldn't be offensive. Its just reality. And its not hating on edmonton to acknowledge it. The first step in change is seeing the need for it. Hiding ourselves from seeing the need doesn't make it go away.

 

[occidentalcapital]

The majority of young people leave Edmonton... huh? Data source? That's so far out to lunch that you might as well be at the midnight buffet.

 

[The_Cat]

At least a house or condo is still relatively affordable in Edmonton. Also, more people can work at home, meaning a job headquartered in Calgary can be done in Edmonton or many other places.

 

[ChazYEG]

At least a house or condo is still relatively affordable in Edmonton. Also, more people can work at home, meaning a job headquartered in Calgary can be done in Edmonton or many other places.

The majority of young people leave Edmonton... huh? Data source? That's so far out to lunch that you might as well be at the midnight buffet.

I get what you both area saying, and I dare say I agree, while not disagreeing entirely with @thommyjo

It might be too much, saying that MOST young people leave Edmonton, but there's evidence of a lot of them doing so, which is something that we should aim to reduce as much as we can.

While I agree with @The_Cat that remote work and affordability are two things that can keep/attract people here, we need to sell it around, or it's worth nothing. Recently I've come to believe that what summarizes most of Edmonton's problems as to attracting/retaining people and businesses is that the city suffers from a severe PR problem.

Edmonton is a GREAT city, I love it here and were not for circumstances very particular about the career we both chose, me and my wife would probably spend the rest of our lives here (until retirement, then Manhattan can wait for me). We take it upon us to sell the city as the great place it is to all of our friends who want to immigrate to Canada, move inside of the country or even visit. But it seems like we're fighting an uphill battle, because most of them haven't even heard of it, or have just heard as "close to Calgary", not on its own merit. Even for people inside Canada, it's not too different. We have a few immigrant friends who've been in the country for 10, 15 years (most of their adult lives), as well as a few Canadian friends from eastern provinces, and they have NO IDEA that Edmonton is within the top 5 largest cities/metros in Canada. Hell, one of my best friends is from Ottawa, moved here for her PhD, and was shocked to learn that Edmonton is as large as Ottawa and Calgary, but didn't believe it until she got here, because in her mind, we were not too different from Halifax, or Victoria, or Saskatoon. We need need to hire a Public Relations Manager.

 

[David A]

The majority of young people leave Edmonton... huh? Data source? That's so far out to lunch that you might as well be at the midnight buffet.

Yes, I would also like to see stats, if any, to back that this up. When broad sweeping generalizations are made, they are often anecdotal which is not wrong, but does not always reflect a broader reality beyond ones specific situation or the economic situation at a very specific point in time.

This city has generally had fairly strong population growth over recent decades, often at a faster percentage rate than either Toronto or Vancouver. I doubt that would happen if most young people were moving away or if no one was coming here.