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What do you think of this project?

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Sure, but I can tell you that right now 10-20% of our building are tradespeople and reverse commute to those places, but actually want an urban lifestyle when they return home.

We must continue to work on our attractiveness and corporate/professional firm development, but need to find ways to attract more of those already here.
 
rake said:
I'm not sure I agree with the general spirit of the last number of posts. As others have mentioned, I think the future of our downtown is residential - I simply don't think there is a path to us becoming a major corporate center at this point of our development. I don't really see this as a bad thing and frankly, I also don't think this is a major hurdle to us attracting and keeping talent. There will always be ambitious people looking for prestigious corporate opportunities, but those people will always dart off to the NYC's/London's/San Francisco's of the world. For most people (albeit not in every industry), there have been very, very few major metropolitan areas in North America where you have been able to make more money relative to the cost of living compared to Edmonton - Calgary pre-2015 was probably the highest, but we have generally been right near the top.

In my experience, far more people leave here for the lifestyle reasons rather than opportunity (at least compared to the cost of living). There are only a very few jobs/industries that pay better in Vancouver and yet people flock there constantly for the lifestyle, despite the cost of living. Of course some of this is climate, but it's also density, walkability, transit, vibrancy, etc.

In my opinion, the best (and only viable) path forward for Edmonton is to get serious about building an attractive, walkable, vibrant city that people can actually enjoy living in - much more of a 'build it and they will come' approach. In that sense, I give the current Council a lot of credit. The push for transit, park/green space development, finally getting serious about cycling infrastructure, implementing the new City Plan, undertaking the zoning bylaw review are all really important steps to building a better city.

In the same way, I am also deeply skeptical a more 'pro-business' council is likely to achieve better results.
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This Is basically my opinion as well. Edmonton needs to focus on making its downtown core (this represents the city to most people) into a desirable place to BE more than a desirable place to work. Downtown Vancouver is honestly a pretty good example of what to do, a lot of the best parts of Vancouver’s downtown are almost completely residential. The built environment alone is an enormous part of the draw.
 
CaptainBL said:
Edmonton will never be a Toronto of the west, or even as corporate as Calgary for that matter. But if you're referring to Vancouver, many people who live in downtown Van also work in downtown Van. We can build all the residential developments we want downtown, but are those residents taking transit to work in the industrial heartland? Or to the welding fab shops on the south side or in Nisku? Or to the new Amazon warehouse? If the city does follow through with the plan for an additional 1 million people, and many of those are to be in downtown or inner city infill developments, you need jobs for these people and they cant all be restaurant workers or electricians working in the oil and gas industry, as that industry will never return to what it once has. Can the city work with Microsoft to have the western Canadian office focused on security or AI? Can the city work with renewable power producers, chemicals companies or hydrogen companies looking to expand into the province to take advantage of the local gas industry? I agree we definitely need residential downtown, but if there isnt the jobs growth downtown as well, I fail to see these residents commuting all over the city. Its a chicken or the egg type riddle.
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To be honest, I don't think you can accomplish much if anything by only criticizing from a distance, unless you want to become one of those people from Toronto that just puts everyone outside of Toronto off, kind if like some Americans who go elsewhere and make unfavorable comparissons to where they live. I think it is really up to people who are invested in our city to improve it and there are actually positive things going on you might miss from a distance. I don't think too much negativity does anything, unless perhaps putting some place else down makes you feel better about where you live currently. If you have something more constructive to say fine, but if not just enjoy your new home city.
 
David A said:
To be honest, I don't think you can accomplish much if anything by only criticizing from a distance, unless you want to become one of those people from Toronto that just puts everyone outside of Toronto off, kind if like some Americans who go elsewhere and make unfavorable comparissons to where they live. I think it is really up to people who are invested in our city to improve it and there are actually positive things going on you might miss from a distance. I don't think too much negativity does anything, unless perhaps putting some place else down makes you feel better about where you live currently. If you have something more constructive to say fine, but if not just enjoy your new home city.
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Yikes, sensitive? My post was not meant to be negative or criticizing, in fact prompting about ways the city could work towards developing the core by working with certain companies. Please go back and read my previous reply to you in which I stated I would love to be back in Edmonton, but my situation does not permit me to. To suggest based on a few online posts that I am not invested in this city and feel better by putting Edmonton down is quite a stretch and an erroneous conclusion as you do not know about my investments, family, passion for, or living situation in Edmonton. So I ask that you please refrain from commenting on my situation. If you disagree with my views on residential, business and municipal development, or that I joined this forum to share both an internal and external view of Edmonton's development, fine, but to suggest otherwise is not appreciated.
 
rake said:
I'm not sure I agree with the general spirit of the last number of posts. As others have mentioned, I think the future of our downtown is residential - I simply don't think there is a path to us becoming a major corporate center at this point of our development. I don't really see this as a bad thing and frankly, I also don't think this is a major hurdle to us attracting and keeping talent. There will always be ambitious people looking for prestigious corporate opportunities, but those people will always dart off to the NYC's/London's/San Francisco's of the world. For most people (albeit not in every industry), there have been very, very few major metropolitan areas in North America where you have been able to make more money relative to the cost of living compared to Edmonton - Calgary pre-2015 was probably the highest, but we have generally been right near the top.

In my experience, far more people leave here for the lifestyle reasons rather than opportunity (at least compared to the cost of living). There are only a very few jobs/industries that pay better in Vancouver and yet people flock there constantly for the lifestyle, despite the cost of living. Of course some of this is climate, but it's also density, walkability, transit, vibrancy, etc.

In my opinion, the best (and only viable) path forward for Edmonton is to get serious about building an attractive, walkable, vibrant city that people can actually enjoy living in - much more of a 'build it and they will come' approach. In that sense, I give the current Council a lot of credit. The push for transit, park/green space development, finally getting serious about cycling infrastructure, implementing the new City Plan, undertaking the zoning bylaw review are all really important steps to building a better city.

In the same way, I am also deeply skeptical a more 'pro-business' council is likely to achieve better results.
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Thank you for so succinctly expressing my thoughts -- I couldn't agree more!

In terms of career, salary and cost of living, Edmonton is almost impossible to beat in Canada (and around the world). Even with the recent economic downturn, there is still so much opportunity here that just doesn't exist elsewhere. Sure, living in Toronto or Vancouver is great and offers more career opportunities in certain industries, but the cost of living in those cities means many people are just scrapping by to afford things that are not considered luxuries in Edmonton.

Without a doubt the challenge for Edmonton's municipal leaders going forward is livability. The city won't become a business centre to rival New York in my lifetime, but it certainly could be a place that attracts a variety of new residents for its amenities and high quality of life. Trying to attract businesses to the city is worthwhile, but not something that is likely be successful if Jasper Avenue still looks like shit and the transit system doesn't work. Frankly, I think the next Council needs to double down on the direction its been moving and not be so tentative. We know what works and it's now time to get on with doing it.
 
When you look at places that have been successful in economic development, it is often because they have nurtured, encouraged and kept local companies and talent that have grown to be bigger - for instance Amazon in Seattle. We have to do this better, this is unfortunately a weak point here and I believe if we don't do better, we will continue to flounder. I don't think it is about having a pro business city council or about chasing after Microsoft to locate something here, or as Toronto tried in its attempt to get another big US tech company to develop Sidewalk Labs. I believe it has to be led by local people living and or working here; they are the best to understand what is going on in the community and what makes sense. The ICE District didn't happen because of someone from somewhere else, it was someone from here who took the initiative and had the vision. Perhaps someone will have the initiative and vision to improve some parts of Jasper Avenue (some parts have been or are being improved), I agree that is also something needed.
 
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archited said:
Definitely worthy of a sit-down Deli section.
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Well, I would respectfully disagree...

There are already lots of sit-down eating establishments in the area. There is no grocery store.

If they eat up too much square-footage with a deli counter, the grocery will become an under-sized (with, of course, under-selection) niche place just like Sobeys on Jasper.

I would say use all the space for what is in demand. A good grocery with good selection in a great location.
 
Valveman said:
Well, I would respectfully disagree...

There are already lots of sit-down eating establishments in the area. There is no grocery store.

If they eat up too much square-footage with a deli counter, the grocery will become an under-sized (with, of course, under-selection) niche place just like Sobeys on Jasper.

I would say use all the space for what is in demand. A good grocery with good selection in a great location.
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On my turn, I'll respectfully disagree. You don't need to have never-ending stock and tens of thousands of products to have a good selection.

One thing I'll never get over is the obsession of North Americans, in general, with genuinely humungous grocery stores where you NEED to find absolutely everything in every single store you go to. It's heresy of you even suggest that they go to a different (and slightly further away) store to get something, oh no, god forbid it!

I, for once, believe strongly that our denser neighborhoods, such as Downtown, Oliver, Old Strathcona and their surroundings would benefit A LOT from a more "European" assortment of grocery stores, with smaller, more curated selections, a larger variety of stores that are not just shopping destinations, but rather fall within the food and hospitality industries as well. This makes up for livelier places and, overall, better economics, with more competition (not only price, but product mix competition).

I understand having big Walmart Supercentre stores and similar competitors to supply the suburban and other low density areas, but I really can't get my head wrapped around having this same concept and pushing this sort of demand for denser and more compact areas.
 
^^^ well, right back at ya ;-)

You make it sound like I'm advocating for a huge Walmart or Superstore - that's completely misconstruing my comments.

How big do you think the TOTAL sf of the grocery space in BG is ? By my estimation, it is perhaps 35% larger than the Sobeys on Jasper which was minute by grocery standards.

Have you noticed a long lineup of replacements for the long-gone Sobeys ? Lots of European groceries with curated selections, have you ? Even with no competition at all, nothing has sprung up to replace Sobeys that is anything like your dream world.

I'm simply suggesting that a decent, properly stocked grocery store is more needed than another deli counter.

Do you really disagree with that ?
 
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