Blatchford Development | ?m | ?s | City of Edmonton

[Oilers99]

^
5 or 10 or 20 years later, homes will be worth what the market will pay for them completely independent of the original lot price. try getting a deal on a house in westmount because the lots were cheaper than current pricing in keswick.

the benefit is in having the neighborhood built out sooner. not only is there an end to carrying costs and at least some recovery of servicing costs, as soon as they are sold the city starts to collect property taxes. they will never recover the unpaid taxes on unsold lots as they are the developer (unsold private development lots at least pay property taxes to the city).

a private developer would likely also never have incurred the same level of up front costs the city paid for at blatchford. that way, when the market does slow down - and they always do - you’re not under water the way city now finds themselves with no way out.

this sums it up nicely. I still think the best bet for the city would be to sell off parcels to large scale private developers - Brookfield, Qualico, MLC, Melcor, etc. and let them develop it like they do in the greenfield with the architectural controls and energy requirements in place.

 

[scooterz]

Behind schedule and over budget.

What Needs to Happen for Blatchford to Take Off? | Urban Affairs

The City of Edmonton’s signature environmental initiative – turning the former city-centre airport, Blatchford, into an eco-friendly community of 30,000 people – is over budget and behind schedule.

urbanaffairs.ca

Good quote from that article: “They’re not wrong to ask for the commercial,” says Kodian, “but who is going to lease it? How do you bring the retail in without the rooftops, and how do you bring the rooftops without the coffee shops?” This is part of the chicken and egg challenge that Blatchford faces. One big potential appeal for the community is the future amenities that should be present, but it could be some time before these are developed. I'm eager to see what kind of options that administration returns in their review of Blatchford. While selling land to developers at a lower price is one approach, it's not the only one and I have no faith that those savings would be passed onto consumers.

 

[IanO]

Oddly enough we are facing similar issues here. The Town wants commercial and light industrial first, but you need a residential base.

 

[Yossarian]

When did homes actually start being built and constructed? The 2015 numbers are confusing to me. Did homes even start being built before 2018??

So I think we can criticize the last 2 years, especially with the real estate boom. But the 2700 number seems off. Why were home starts so delayed? Issues with demolition? Ground work? Energy system!

And now I think we need to see home sales in the hundreds as well or else it’ll clearly be an issue. In many ways though, there’s no transit, connectivity in and out sucks, there’s not a lot of reason to live here except for the long term vision and hopes. I think that’ll work against it.

The first homes got underway summer 2019. I do think the city owns the blame here as the first units were announced without the city actually approving them to build. My place had an 8 month start delay because the person approving the build permit went on maternity leave with no immediate backfill, and I am sure that affected the other builders too. At least for my place, Covid related supply issues were the next biggest issue. Windows alone accounted for our possession being pushed 4 months, with cascading impacts from that as well, and we were moved in months before any other unit in our group was moved in.

For the people suggesting land cost reductions, I did some quick math on how much land cost is a part of the unit price.
My own place, it was about $139,000/unit
For more recent lots
Lot J: $37,756/unit
Lot L: $62,780/unit
Lot M: $17,341/unit
Lot Q: $38,750/unit

For reference, in my previous central neighbourhood, infill land + demo costs would have been around $175000/unit based on a split lot.

To me, it doesn't seem like the land costs are a significant barrier, especially on the denser parcels.

 

[EtoV]

I received an email that the NX Build townhome project will be breaking ground soon.

 

[itom987]

^
5 or 10 or 20 years later, homes will be worth what the market will pay for them completely independent of the original lot price. try getting a deal on a house in westmount because the lots were cheaper than current pricing in keswick.

the benefit is in having the neighborhood built out sooner. not only is there an end to carrying costs and at least some recovery of servicing costs, as soon as they are sold the city starts to collect property taxes. they will never recover the unpaid taxes on unsold lots as they are the developer (unsold private development lots at least pay property taxes to the city).

a private developer would likely also never have incurred the same level of up front costs the city paid for at blatchford. that way, when the market does slow down - and they always do - you’re not under water the way city now finds themselves with no way out.

The benefits also extend to the area surrounding Blatchford, more people are shopping at the stores, getting around the area and using transit, walking their dogs making the area safer etc. This all encourages more businesses to set up shop in the area and gives more tax revenue to the city. This is why Edmonton should emphasize on giving priority to developing the inner areas of the city over the suburbs, it is absolutely stupid for them not to.

 

[MacLac]

The first homes got underway summer 2019. I do think the city owns the blame here as the first units were announced without the city actually approving them to build. My place had an 8 month start delay because the person approving the build permit went on maternity leave with no immediate backfill, and I am sure that affected the other builders too. At least for my place, Covid related supply issues were the next biggest issue. Windows alone accounted for our possession being pushed 4 months, with cascading impacts from that as well, and we were moved in months before any other unit in our group was moved in.

For the people suggesting land cost reductions, I did some quick math on how much land cost is a part of the unit price.
My own place, it was about $139,000/unit
For more recent lots
Lot J: $37,756/unit
Lot L: $62,780/unit
Lot M: $17,341/unit
Lot Q: $38,750/unit

For reference, in my previous central neighbourhood, infill land + demo costs would have been around $175000/unit based on a split lot.

To me, it doesn't seem like the land costs are a significant barrier, especially on the denser parcels.

Well there it is folks……we’re only on the 4th year of building - minus the delay in maternity based permitting, COVID and supply chain ailments…..I’d say we’re at about where we should be. The “Elan” development here in Beaumation Nation…..only has about a dozen under construction in its first year…….keep the pitchforks at bay here

 

[supaflyryguy]

Good quote from that article: “They’re not wrong to ask for the commercial,” says Kodian, “but who is going to lease it? How do you bring the retail in without the rooftops, and how do you bring the rooftops without the coffee shops?” This is part of the chicken and egg challenge that Blatchford faces. One big potential appeal for the community is the future amenities that should be present, but it could be some time before these are developed. I'm eager to see what kind of options that administration returns in their review of Blatchford. While selling land to developers at a lower price is one approach, it's not the only one and I have no faith that those savings would be passed onto consumers.

Yet when the latest greenfield urban sprawl by the airport or on a field outside Sherwood Park or St. Albert gets going, people buy up like mad even though the nearest grocery store is a 10 minute drive. We have the most pathetic development community. They only know how to build out sprawl and big box warehouses.

 

[Oilers99]

Yet when the latest greenfield urban sprawl by the airport or on a field outside Sherwood Park or St. Albert gets going, people buy up like mad even though the nearest grocery store is a 10 minute drive. We have the most pathetic development community. They only know how to build out sprawl and big box warehouses.

perhaps the development community builds and develops what Edmontonians want?

 

[thommyjo]

perhaps the development community builds and develops what Edmontonians want?

Classic argument here. Tons of content out there disputing this. Everyone in NY also wants small apartments for $5009/month and like trains. But everyone in Edmonton wants to drive and have backyards. And everyone in Montreal wants a 3 story walk up.

It’s more like people buy what is built and what is affordable, attractive, and meets needs. Large suburban homes are subsidized. Very few would buy them if their property taxes were accurate. And less people like condos here because there’s so few good buildings and transit is crappy.

Edmontonians aren’t collectively different than Vancouver or other cities. We just primarily have built a very limited type of housing product.

We have a gazillion of those 4-5 story wood frame condos next to a highway. Think those are people’s most desired housing type as well?

 

[roe_]

perhaps the development community builds and develops what Edmontonians want?

Amazing that everyone in Edmonton wants to live in a beige box by a fake pond and drive to the nearest Sobeys!

I don't really care that people in the development community aren't happy about Blatchford -- if their product truly is better then the market will bear that out.

 

[northlands]

Good quote from that article: “They’re not wrong to ask for the commercial,” says Kodian, “but who is going to lease it? How do you bring the retail in without the rooftops, and how do you bring the rooftops without the coffee shops?” This is part of the chicken and egg challenge that Blatchford faces. One big potential appeal for the community is the future amenities that should be present, but it could be some time before these are developed. I'm eager to see what kind of options that administration returns in their review of Blatchford. While selling land to developers at a lower price is one approach, it's not the only one and I have no faith that those savings would be passed onto consumers.

I think Adil's quote is really on the mark. It's been slow moving thus far, but this is a development powder keg just waiting for a first mover to light the fuse. Frankly, the City was pretty out to lunch on their absorption rate aspirations, but perhaps having certain first mover incentives on multi-family could really create the momentum needed to get big players in.

 

[kcantor]

Amazing that everyone in Edmonton wants to live in a beige box by a fake pond and drive to the nearest Sobeys!

I don't really care that people in the development community aren't happy about Blatchford -- if their product truly is better then the market will bear that out.

soo...

there are 32 completed units in blatchford from day 1, regardless of which year you want to use as day 1.

cmhc reports 1,107 units started in the month of june of 2022 and 911units were completed in the month of june 2022.

there were 7,186 units started year to date by the end of june 2022 and 5,551completions year to date by the end of june 2022.

so yes, it's probably fair to say that the market has indeed spoken and blatchford has missed out.

 

[Oilers99]

soo...

there are 32 completed units in blatchford from day 1, regardless of which year you want to use as day 1.

cmhc reports 1,107 units started in the month of june of 2022 and 911units were completed in the month of june 2022.

there were 7,186 units started year to date by the end of june 2022 and 5,551completions year to date by the end of june 2022.

so yes, it's probably fair to say that the market has indeed spoken and blatchford has missed out.

this pretty much sums it up, this was also during a period of significant liquidity. with interest rates rising and many projects being shelved (both greenfield and infill), it will make the economic argument for Blatchford in its current state even more suspect.

 

[MattPT]

I’m not sure how superfluous stats are going to further the conversation. It is quite obvious that there hasn’t been a lot of construction in Blatchford. What’s also clear is that there are two competing viewpoints on Blatchford. For some Blatchford is a work in progress worth the time and cost to get right. A well thought out, central, forward thinking (¿experimental?), pedestrian/cyclist/transit oriented, holistic approach to neighbourhood building. For others, it’s a failure that is ignoring the market, and missing an opportunity to cash in on prime land.

So the question needing to be answered is: Do we want griesbach 2.0, or do we want to try something different? After a decade of debate I thought we had decided…