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Downtown

We used to go to downtown for the stores, attractions, food and entertainment. WEM got built and Edmonton city centre mall ended up surviving on the memories of the past. All downtown has left are some restaurants and festivals. We saw notable improvement in the health of downtown when Rogers Place got built but those festivals and events are not consistent. The only way we are going to get consistency is for people to come to downtown every day. The only way to encourage that is to level the playing field. Do you think WEM would still be successful if they charged for parking?
 
WEM spent a fortune, just building the worlds largest parking lot. They could have easily charged admission into the lot and there are many businessmen out there that would have done. just. that. Every dollar that is spent on parking in downtown is a dollar not spent on products offered in downtown making it harder for business to make a profit. They close and we are left with an empty downtown overrun with hobos and druggies.
 
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You’re comparing apples to oranges.

WEM owns the stores as well as the parking. The rents and operating costs paid by those stores include a component that makes it economical for WEM to build and maintain the “free parking”. Triple Five isn’t providing free parking out of the goodness of their hearts (nor should they).

If the DBA or DECL or any other group of businesses or individuals wants to pay the city to provide free parking for them and for their customers, I’m sure the city would be happy to cash the check on our behalf as tax payers and simultaneously eliminate the costs of enforcement as well.

The problems you note aren’t caused by a lack of free parking and providing free parking won’t solve them.
 
Not to mention free parking is possibly the worst traffic generator. It's literally an invitation to people to drive downtown.

What downtown needs to attract more people is:

a. More people living there
b. More people working there

not free parking

The businesses and amenities that attract people should become more and more feasible the more people are in downtown on a daily basis. Free parking also would likely induce artificially greater demand for parking, in the same way that road and highway expansion never actually solves congestion.

Transit is also pretty good in terms of offering access to downtown and park and rides are extremely convenient, while transit accessibility in Edmonton is certainly worthy of criticism and could definitely better, in terms of facilitating car free/ car lite movement between the areas it serves and the City Centre it is quite good. I myself live in Sherwood Park and when I go to events downtown I always park and ride at Davies if I have time. Much more convenient and stress free than driving and parking downtown.

I feel paid parking incentivises the use of alternative modes, rather than reducing the total amount of trips.

As others have pointed out, while places like West Ed probably got a boost from free parking initially, it's unlikely that for example, having paid parking at West Ed and free parking downtown would flip the script. West Ed just has more stuff. Which is why downtown needs to focus on those two things I talked about earlier, rather than offering free parking.
 
itom987 said:
We used to go to downtown for the stores, attractions, food and entertainment. WEM got built and Edmonton city centre mall ended up surviving on the memories of the past. All downtown has left are some restaurants and festivals. We saw notable improvement in the health of downtown when Rogers Place got built but those festivals and events are not consistent. The only way we are going to get consistency is for people to come to downtown every day. The only way to encourage that is to level the playing field. Do you think WEM would still be successful if they charged for parking?
Click to expand...
Exactly, not just WEM but neither of our other two busiest malls charge for parking. People really do not like being nickel and dimed and enough will avoid it to hurt retail areas that have paid parking.

Of course the malls pay for the parking space and their maintenance, which is then passed on to their tenants, but its not as if the stores there charge customers a surcharge for this, so it is free for customers.
 
erudyk_29 said:
Not to mention free parking is possibly the worst traffic generator. It's literally an invitation to people to drive downtown.

What downtown needs to attract more people is:

a. More people living there
b. More people working there

not free parking

The businesses and amenities that attract people should become more and more feasible the more people are in downtown on a daily basis. Free parking also would likely induce artificially greater demand for parking, in the same way that road and highway expansion never actually solves congestion.

Transit is also pretty good in terms of offering access to downtown and park and rides are extremely convenient, while transit accessibility in Edmonton is certainly worthy of criticism and could definitely better, in terms of facilitating car free/ car lite movement between the areas it serves and the City Centre it is quite good. I myself live in Sherwood Park and when I go to events downtown I always park and ride at Davies if I have time. Much more convenient and stress free than driving and parking downtown.

I feel paid parking incentivises the use of alternative modes, rather than reducing the total amount of trips.

As others have pointed out, while places like West Ed probably got a boost from free parking initially, it's unlikely that for example, having paid parking at West Ed and free parking downtown would flip the script. West Ed just has more stuff. Which is why downtown needs to focus on those two things I talked about earlier, rather than offering free parking.
Click to expand...
Some of us have been around for more than a decade and remember downtown used to have more stuff until people decided it was too much of a hassle to go there and one of the hassles is parking.
 
I’m a pretty “anti car” guy as much as I can be. I bike year round (including -35 days like today), use transit, and live with just 1 car for multiple kids.

At the same time, I think pricing should always be supply/demand based. So I think the key question is this:

Was there too much demand for parking downtown at the new times they’ve made it paid? (Evenings and Sundays).

Because if there wasn’t a massive number of people using the free parking, and if people were constantly struggling to find parking, then upping the cost is smart.

But if parking utilization was 60% on Sundays, and we increased pricing and now it’s 30% used. That’s stupid beyond belief.

We don’t need to worry much about traffic/congestion and all the other issues cities like Vancouver have. We need to worry about the success of businesses downtown. I don’t think we want big parking lots and free parking at all times, but on quiet Sundays….to not have free parking….feels like a disservice to businesses, as well as things like the library, concerts, faith communities, festivals, etc that would all benefit.

We can’t put the cart before the horse.
 
I'm afraid alot of our attitudes towards limiting parking are rooted in a time when downtown was a destination in and of itself. However, post Covid/Work from home that is just not the case anymore and if we want downtown businesses to survive/become a destination we need to adapt to the new reality. I am as much anti-car as any other urbanist, but the fact of the matter is Edmontonians are very attached to their car. When we moved the Ice Wall from the Edmonton Ski Club to the spot next to Rogers Place last year our usage dropped 80%!, with the overwhelming majority telling us they weren't coming because it was "too much of a hassle with no free parking". The new owners are hoping the location at Louise McKinney will see people return.
 
I'm old enough to remember the Park in the Heart campaign of the 80s, where businesses offered free or low-cost parking on private property downtown, so there are private-sector solutions.

This is not a new issue or debate. I'm fine with the city charging for parking on its streets. Keeps cars turning over and *might* encourage other forms of travel.
 
thommyjo said:
I’m a pretty “anti car” guy as much as I can be. I bike year round (including -35 days like today), use transit, and live with just 1 car for multiple kids.

At the same time, I think pricing should always be supply/demand based. So I think the key question is this:

Was there too much demand for parking downtown at the new times they’ve made it paid? (Evenings and Sundays).

Because if there wasn’t a massive number of people using the free parking, and if people were constantly struggling to find parking, then upping the cost is smart.

But if parking utilization was 60% on Sundays, and we increased pricing and now it’s 30% used. That’s stupid beyond belief.

We don’t need to worry much about traffic/congestion and all the other issues cities like Vancouver have. We need to worry about the success of businesses downtown. I don’t think we want big parking lots and free parking at all times, but on quiet Sundays….to not have free parking….feels like a disservice to businesses, as well as things like the library, concerts, faith communities, festivals, etc that would all benefit.

We can’t put the cart before the horse.
Click to expand...
Perhaps the intention of expanding the hours for paid parking was to encourage people to use other methods of transport, but if all it does is cause people to avoid downtown more and go elsewhere to places that have free parking, then it does not succeed.

Sundays and some evenings downtown is generally fairly dead with lots of available parking (I know because I am often around then and see it), which used to be free. Now fewer retail businesses downtown are open then.
 
David A said:
Perhaps the intention of expanding the hours for paid parking was to encourage people to use other methods of transport, but if all it does is cause people to avoid downtown more and go elsewhere to places that have free parking, then it does not succeed.

Sundays and some evenings downtown is generally fairly dead with lots of available parking (I know because I am often around then and see it), which used to be free. Now fewer retail businesses downtown are open then.
Click to expand...
Yeah, our downtown isn’t a closed system and there’s not enough unique retail there to drive traffic.

If you live in the pleasantview area for example, you aren’t deep suburbs, but getting downtown will take a bit of time. Would you rather go for dinner there and pay $5-10 for parking? Or to the 30+ restaurants along Calgary trail/gateway/whitemud crossing with free parking?

The competition is too high for DT. And the luxury housing DT isn’t enough to sustain everything. We need people from mature communities to come DT and non car options will not be desirable for many of them for years to come.
 
I also think that in car-centric cities such as Edmonton, there is a psychological effect of seeing a full parking lot that makes people want to visit whichever business is nearby because there must be something good happening there. So, having a full parking lot is actually a good thing. (See: Costco. Or the Krispy Kreme, I think at least some of that hype is being fuelled by the line of cars spilling out onto Gateway)

The way I see it, we have the choice of 2 problems:

- Charge for parking, and have very little visitors from the rest of the city to support DT businesses
- Offer free (time-limited) parking, and some people are unable to find a parking spot sometimes

Option 2 seems much better to me, especially since if people are unable to park, that means there's lots of people visiting and businesses are getting customers. And even the people that leave because they can't find a spot, leave with that psychological "full parking lot" effect, and maybe they'll come back another day (or... take transit next time they visit? ;) )?
 
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There is a 15 minute free/grace period now although you do have register your plate at the pay station so they can track you. Even if you're parking for longer, you get the first 15 minutes free.

It's surprising sometimes how much you can get done in 15 minutes. :)

Had a one hour meeting in Telus Place this morning and decided to park in their parkade to get out of the cold. $12 to exit. P1 was full and P2 was crowded.
 
Folks, just level the playing field. Make parking free as it is everywhere else. Driving to downtown is perfectly fine way to get downtown. If the streets get busy and the parking lots become full then we have a healthy city. Those problems are good problems to have and if people complain about the traffic they can take the bus, LRT or ride a bike. Most people will find their own solutions to those kind of problems. A busy downtown is a safe downtown.
 
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