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Downtown

I don't follow Gunter closely, but it seems to me he has always been against more LRT and bike lanes. I don't think his positions change, so perhaps he is like a broken clock. He may be right once and a while, but not that often and it is fleeting.

His arguments would about public safety would actually be much better if he just left out that gratuitous swipe at LRT and bike lanes at the end, but either he just can't resist or its like red meat to his followers and he is trying to throw it to them to keep them happy.
 
David -- Gunter is what we would call an ultra-right winger (and there are a few on this site as well) who profess that any change is a bend away from what "we" know and are comfortable with. Fortunately they are few in number and their divergent views do not represent the norm; they harken to "the good old days" which as some of us recall weren't that good after all.
 
thommyjo said:
The takes on LRT and bike lanes are so bad. 🙄

They seem to think it’s only for “downtown office workers”, as if the LRT isn’t serving WEM, Misecordia, Macewan, Norquest, Bonnie doon mall, Southgate, MWTC, UofA, UofA hospital, Grey Nuns, etc. those are all major employment hubs and places of study, leisure, and visiting.

What’s he want, Rio terrace to brookside LRT?
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I skimmed the article, so apologies if I missed something

I agree with you that he has some horrible takes. The bike lane comment felt a bit dogwhistle-y in particular.

But our rapid transit has been, to date, very downtown-centric. It's not like we're the only place that does this - most North American cities are like this, but it's a glaring oversight in terms of producing a comprehensive transit system for everyone, that gets people out of their cars for more than their work commute. All of those places are connected (or shall be connected) to LRT, true, but they're all connected to downtown, rather than each other. Obviously, certain routes aren't really worth rapid transit, even if some people do go from Rio Terrace to Brookside. But even more popular, but non-core commutes, like the west end to Southgate, or Mill Woods to the UofA, aren't part of the conversation. It's about building lines out to X, Y, and Z from where? Always downtown. And as vital as downtown is, Edmonton is fairly decentralized. Corridors like Whyte, 50th St, 118 Ave, 111-112, 137th Ave, and 23rd Ave are ripe for LRT or BRT. Of course it's not like the options are rapid transit or nothing, and I know there are other ways for people to get around with the regular bus system, but some areas would make getting around much better for people going to different things (not just jobs, but also other employment zones) with a dedicated lane for transit of some kind and speeds that compete with driving.
 
dunno said:
I skimmed the article, so apologies if I missed something

I agree with you that he has some horrible takes. The bike lane comment felt a bit dogwhistle-y in particular.

But our rapid transit has been, to date, very downtown-centric. It's not like we're the only place that does this - most North American cities are like this, but it's a glaring oversight in terms of producing a comprehensive transit system for everyone, that gets people out of their cars for more than their work commute. All of those places are connected (or shall be connected) to LRT, true, but they're all connected to downtown, rather than each other. Obviously, certain routes aren't really worth rapid transit, even if some people do go from Rio Terrace to Brookside. But even more popular, but non-core commutes, like the west end to Southgate, or Mill Woods to the UofA, aren't part of the conversation. It's about building lines out to X, Y, and Z from where? Always downtown. And as vital as downtown is, Edmonton is fairly decentralized. Corridors like Whyte, 50th St, 118 Ave, 111-112, 137th Ave, and 23rd Ave are ripe for LRT or BRT. Of course it's not like the options are rapid transit or nothing, and I know there are other ways for people to get around with the regular bus system, but some areas would make getting around much better for people going to different things (not just jobs, but also other employment zones) with a dedicated lane for transit of some kind and speeds that compete with driving.
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I agree to an extent, but we just aren’t there yet. Starting with the hub and spoke is usually the most logical. The reason a city like ours develops in a circle centred on downtown is because that logically creates the shortest distance and most efficiencies. If there was a place for train lines to intersect they wasn’t downtown, it would be the most efficient. Downtown is the most logical intersection at this point for transfers and crossovers.

What’s the alternative? WEM or the UofA are the only things even close to downtown for daily foot traffic.

And most people don’t cross the entire city most days. Most people have their 10-20min radius. For me, living 2 blocks from a future west valley stop, I won’t use the train primarily to get downtown. I’ll use it to go to Lewis farms with my bike or stroller to see friends and family or use the new rec centre one day. I’ll use it to get to WEM, especially at Christmas. I’ll use it to head to 124 street and Oliver. And of course to downtown and rogers. Along the line will be friends, grocery stores, and restaurants to visit.

Ideally our city starts to develop around the train. Not forcing trains around the city more than we have to. This is what I find Vancouver does so well. So many people now live near the train and have most of their “places” along the train lines as well.
 
thommyjo said:
I agree to an extent, but we just aren’t there yet. Starting with the hub and spoke is usually the most logical. The reason a city like ours develops in a circle centred on downtown is because that logically creates the shortest distance and most efficiencies. If there was a place for train lines to intersect they wasn’t downtown, it would be the most efficient. Downtown is the most logical intersection at this point for transfers and crossovers.

What’s the alternative? WEM or the UofA are the only things even close to downtown for daily foot traffic.

And most people don’t cross the entire city most days. Most people have their 10-20min radius. For me, living 2 blocks from a future west valley stop, I won’t use the train primarily to get downtown. I’ll use it to go to Lewis farms with my bike or stroller to see friends and family or use the new rec centre one day. I’ll use it to get to WEM, especially at Christmas. I’ll use it to head to 124 street and Oliver. And of course to downtown and rogers. Along the line will be friends, grocery stores, and restaurants to visit.

Ideally our city starts to develop around the train. Not forcing trains around the city more than we have to. This is what I find Vancouver does so well. So many people now live near the train and have most of their “places” along the train lines as well.
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I hear you.

I don't think having downtown as a priority is bad and for a fledgling rapid transit, it does make sense to be the focus. People largely do stick to their radius (I'd argue it's more 20-30mins, depending on where in the city you are), true, but they aren't necessarily in the direct path between their home and downtown. Southgate and WEM are major destinations and people from the southside visit WEM and (albeit less so) people from the west end go to Southgate. Or they go to stuff in the area, or visit friends or have appointments. Outside of major events, both of these malls are arguably significantly more popular leisure spaces for Edmontonians, for better or worse. The Metro Line north of the Yellowhead goes...nowhere. It misses Northgate and the main higher density/commercial area of Griesbach. I guess it goes to the Castle Downs YMCA but otherwise it's just going through endless tract housing. It'll be useful for getting workers downtown and students to the various campuses, but what about more local trips, that are centred more on roads like 137th, where a lot of businesses are for groceries, clothes, furniture, eating out, doctors appointments, etc. Not only that, 137th Ave, bolstered by rapid transit, would be incredibly easier to redevelop at higher density compared to the endless walled off culs-de-sac neighbourhoods on 153rd.

I think a 178th to 87th Ave to UofA to Whyte crosstown is the most obvious contender for non-downtown rapid transit. Gives people going on trips like my examples (Mill Woods to UofA, Southgate to WEM) a more direct route (with transfer) that bypasses looping around DT. After that, probably 118th Ave between Blatchford-NAIT and Abbotsfield (potentially curling up Victoria Trail). Allows easier access for people in north-central/northeast Edmonton to popular local destinations that are easy to get to by car without having to zig-zag around via downtown or a slow bus, such as Kingsway and NAIT, as well as connections to the Metro Line north for visiting, say, a friend in Castle Downs. We also need to realize a lot of people don't work downtown and giving them better transit options is also important. It isn't uncommon for someone to live somewhere like Meadowlark and work around Weber on Gateway, particularly with the easy access via the Whitemud. There is a problem with the low-density, sprawling warehouse/office campuses that have sprung up in the west end and south side over the past 15 years, but older areas like Weber or even around Coronation Park and Capilano could easily be beefed up with more offices and the like instead of building something on Parsons Road.

My ideal would be cross-town LRT for the aforementioned Whyte-87th Ave route, BRT for 118th Ave (with potential for upgrades as traffic/density warrants), 137th Ave (unless the Metro Line plans reroute to it, which I doubt will happen), and 23rd Ave. Maybe 50th Street too, connected by the bridge that never happened at the river, but instead just for buses, pedestrians, and cyclists.
 
Big crowds for the second weekend in a row at Churchill. Will be the same tomorrow.

Screenshot_20230901-221013_Samsung Internet.jpg


https://twitter.com/x/status/1697800767489691890
 
chrisvazquez7 said:
I was there last night, and it was absolutely fantastic. It gave me a renewed sense of pride in downtown Edmonton, something I haven’t felt for a while now. Let’s hope we can keep the ball rolling and host more and more events/festivals downtown.

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I am really glad that we didn't hear anything about major safety issues during these past few weeks. I honestly hope these things help create momentum enough and bump up safety in Downtown so that I can move back in there
 
What is the future of downtown retail? This is the inspiration behind the much-anticipated second annual Edmonton Downtown Business Association's 'Imagining Downtown' luncheon.

Be the first to hear the results of the Edmonton Downtown Retail Vacancy Study and hear from different thought leaders and subject matter experts about what’s possible for Edmonton's downtown and downtowns across Canada and inspiration for the path ahead.

Imagining Downtown: Restoring Retail will also announce six new retailers opening downtown as part of the EDBA's Retail Attraction Program.

Date: October 12, 2023
Time: 11 AM
Location: The Westin Hotel

www.eventbrite.ca

Imagining Downtown: Restoring Retail

Eventbrite - Edmonton Downtown Business Association presents Imagining Downtown: Restoring Retail - Thursday, 12 October 2023 at The Westin Edmonton, Edmonton, AB. Find event and ticket information.
www.eventbrite.ca www.eventbrite.ca
 
I just hope the new retailers are not more coffee shops, restaurants, which while nice we have a fairly decent selection of already.

There are so many huge gaps in retail in the downtown core - for instance, very little mens clothing other than high end. I'm not sure where you can even buy a light bulb or small appliance.

There is no place to buy stationary, or office supplies. I don't know of any place that sells computers.
 
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