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Downtown Crime

Ian thinks our crime is bad?!
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^There's gotta be something for people not willing to take help and creating disorder. The bylaw also proposes no loitering in stations unless you're going somewhere. This is the same as what Calgary is currently contemplating.

It's a good question and some people just aren't capable of taking help. A friend of mine had an adopted brother (he died as a result of AIDS 15 years ago from prostituting himself for money and sharing needles).

He was young when he was adopted but was born with fetal alcohol syndrome and so that significantly impacted his ability to learn, concentrate, make good decisions, manage money - all through no fault of his own. When you have neurological damage like that, it leads to terrible personal decisions and terrible consequences and you can't really treat it and so it is not even a situation of not wanting help. Many people are on the street with undiagnosed fetal alcohol syndrome. The leading causes of death for people with FAS are suicide and accidents. Can you imagine - leading cause of death being suicide for people born with FAS, which is about 1 per 1,000 based on a quick search (but about 1 in 100 for Indigenous people living off the reserve - maybe higher).

He was the nicest guy, though. But he felt stupid, inadequate, ashamed, alone, and a burden. About 60% are unemployed because they just can't hold down a job and he had several. Many get into trouble in our communities and even if they get housing, they break the rules and get kicked out because they make bad decisions. But that's part of the illness - making bad decisions. Way too many people are still born with FAS. Some may need to be institutionalized but there aren't many spaces. What do we do with those who are a major risk? Some can lead productive lives, but still face lifelong struggles, and many are dealt an unimaginably cruel hand at life that can't be overcome. These are some of the people who are on our streets right now - and as noted, many undiagnosed.
 
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I think it was a major mistake to start dismantling our mental health institutions 30 years ago. This was a trend north america wide due to abuse and poor conditions. Progressives said they're inhumane, tear them down, conservatives were more than happy to not spend the money on them any longer. But there really isn't a lot of alternatives for some individuals. Supportive Housing is similar but with individual accommodations. It's hard to know how much of this type of housing is needed, the costs to build and operate are very high but there is a percentage of the population that needs our help regardless, I just don't know how many individuals we're talking about.
 
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I think it was a major mistake to start dismantling our mental health institutions 30 years ago. This was a trend north america wide due to abuse and poor conditions. Progressives said they're inhumane, tear them down, conservatives were more than happy to not spend the money on them any longer. But there really isn't a lot of alternatives for some individuals. Supportive Housing is similar but with individual accommodations. It's hard to know how much of this type of housing is needed, the costs to build and operate are very high but there is a percentage of the population that needs our help regardless, I just don't know how many individuals we're talking about.
Exactly back alleys and streets where people are vulnerable to bad weather and crime are not better than mental health institutions, but perhaps it was convenient at the time for governments to unload the responsibility and significant costs, using the argument of the institutions being inhumane as a pretext. But I'm not sure if they are now even really saving money in responding to and dealing with all the problems related to people out on the streets.
 
I think it was a major mistake to start dismantling our mental health institutions 30 years ago. This was a trend north america wide due to abuse and poor conditions. Progressives said they're inhumane, tear them down, conservatives were more than happy to not spend the money on them any longer. But there really isn't a lot of alternatives for some individuals. Supportive Housing is similar but with individual accommodations. It's hard to know how much of this type of housing is needed, the costs to build and operate are very high but there is a percentage of the population that needs our help regardless, I just don't know how many individuals we're talking about.
Yeah. I think when we look at where things are at now, we can all agree, it’s no humane.

Doesn’t excuse the abuse that did have in older institutions. But maybe we threw the baby out with the bath water. Cause the average persons experience on the streets now is not better than the institutional setting we used to have. Hence why some purposely try to get into prison cause the structure there is literally better.

We have to find the right mix of human rights and safety.
 
^There's gotta be something for people not willing to take help and creating disorder. The bylaw also proposes no loitering in stations unless you're going somewhere. This is the same as what Calgary is currently contemplating.
So the solution to this is going to be a strongly worded letter?

Call me cynical, but I think it's going to take more than that...
 
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It's a good question and some people just aren't capable of taking help. A friend of mine had an adopted brother (he died as a result of AIDS 15 years ago from prostituting himself for money and sharing needles).

He was young when he was adopted but was born with fetal alcohol syndrome and so that significantly impacted his ability to learn, concentrate, make good decisions, manage money - all through no fault of his own. When you have neurological damage like that, it leads to terrible personal decisions and terrible consequences and you can't really treat it and so it is not even a situation of not wanting help. Many people are on the street with undiagnosed fetal alcohol syndrome. The leading causes of death for people with FAS are suicide and accidents. Can you imagine - leading cause of death being suicide for people born with FAS, which is about 1 per 1,000 based on a quick search (but about 1 in 100 for Indigenous people living off the reserve - maybe higher).

He was the nicest guy, though. But he felt stupid, inadequate, ashamed, alone, and a burden. About 60% are unemployed because they just can't hold down a job and he had several. Many get into trouble in our communities and even if they get housing, they break the rules and get kicked out because they make bad decisions. But that's part of the illness - making bad decisions. Way too many people are still born with FAS. Some need to be institutionalized but there aren't many spaces. What do we do with those who are a major risk? Some can lead productive lives, but still face lifelong struggles, and many are dealt an unimaginably cruel hand at life that can't be overcome. These are some of the people who are on our streets right now - and as noted, many undiagnosed.
Sad story, and only one of many..

Its a tough problem to tackle for sure, and while what is being done (or not done) now clearly isn't working, I'm not sure going back to the older institutional approach is a good idea either.

Much like the judicial industry, a poverty or mental health industry can wind up having some perverse incentives, where the people in charge end up having more interest in implementing treatments than cures.
 

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