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Commuter & Regional Rail

Need to see rail between Edmonton and Calgary before or concurrently with a Calgary-Banff route.
 
Rail from Edmonton to Calgary still does not make sense given the potential market, population density and end of line connections.

YYC to Banff makes sense today and would have a significant premium clientele from Europe/Asia and potential for labour market mobility solutions.
 
IanO said:
Rail from Edmonton to Calgary still does not make sense given the potential market, population density and end of line connections.

YYC to Banff makes sense today and would have a significant premium clientele from Europe/Asia and potential for labour market mobility solutions.
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I agree with the second part of your statement. YYC to Banff makes sense even without an Edmonton to Calgary connection (which will take much longer to build anyways because it will largely be 'greenfield'). The first part of your statement is incorrect, in my opinion. We spend hundreds of millions (indeed billions) building and paving roads to small population centres around the province. These roads don't make money. But they help improve the local economy and providing this access is a primary function of our government. Linking Calgary to Edmonton by passanger rail will cost more money than it brings it, but it would be an economic game changer for the province. Time to put on our visionary hats.
 
But really no point in arguing, as clearly people see it different ways. Things will happen when they happen, and it may surprise you how soon that will be.
 
Didama said:
I agree with the second part of your statement. YYC to Banff makes sense even without an Edmonton to Calgary connection (which will take much longer to build anyways because it will largely be 'greenfield'). The first part of your statement is incorrect, in my opinion. We spend hundreds of millions (indeed billions) building and paving roads to small population centres around the province. These roads don't make money. But they help improve the local economy and providing this access is a primary function of our government. Linking Calgary to Edmonton by passanger rail will cost more money than it brings it, but it would be an economic game changer for the province. Time to put on our visionary hats.
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The Windsor-Tor-MTL-QC corridor continues to evade true HSR and has questionable ROI... how in the world do you envision this to work?

Protect the ROW/corridor, focus on LRT expansion, rapid bus, density in our city cores, tourism promotion and call me when Alberta is 10,000,000 people.
 
Like I said, I won't get into a debate here. To understand the value of a passenger rail link between Edmonton and Calgary you have to look at things holistically, not just if the line can pay for itself. What would having a link do for Alberta's economy overall. If you don't get it, you don't get it. It won't happen without some GoA involvement, but the interest from private equity is there as well. I am not a fan of the UCP, but they seem to understand this.

Why did we spend billions upon billions to build TMX when every private company walked away? Transformational infrastructure can't always be measured by direct ROI.
 
IanO said:
The Windsor-Tor-MTL-QC corridor continues to evade true HSR and has questionable ROI... how in the world do you envision this to work?

Protect the ROW/corridor, focus on LRT expansion, rapid bus, density in our city cores, tourism promotion and call me when Alberta is 10,000,000 people.
Click to expand...

Crossing provincial boundaries also adds massive complexities, as does population density and topography.
 
The reasoning for my statement is:
1. I believe train passengers from Edmonton would make up a not insignificant portion of the passengers heading to Banff/Canmore
2. Provincial Gov't support/investment should indeed support tourism but business and AB resident use numbers would be much better served connecting the Calg-Red Deer-Edmonton corridor. As @Didama notes we build public transit for public benefit well knowing the fares aren't going to cover cost but we don't think about inter-city rail in the same way.
 
Didama said:
Like I said, I won't get into a debate here. To understand the value of a passenger rail link between Edmonton and Calgary you have to look at things holistically, not just if the line can pay for itself. What would having a link do for Alberta's economy overall. If you don't get it, you don't get it. It won't happen without some GoA involvement, but the interest from private equity is there as well. I am not a fan of the UCP, but they seem to understand this.

Why did we spend billions upon billions to build TMX when every private company walked away? Transformational infrastructure can't always be measured by direct ROI.
Click to expand...

Aren't forums about debate? I get it, love HSR, travel to places because they have it, but I just do not see it being anywhere near viable for decades. IF the province wants to underwrite these multi-billion $$$$$$ projects to create jobs, 'be transformational' and not want a ROI, so be it, I'll be a regular customer and enjoy the best way to travel, but is it the best use of limited resources right now? I do not see it.
 
^ yes we are here to debate, but this 'is HSR viable or not' debate has gone on non-stop for the past 10 years. This is a commuter rail thread anyways.

Why do we pave a road to Grande Cache for hundreds of millions of dollars? Gravel would suffice. Governments constantly spend large amounts of money on projects that don't have a direct ROI. Some times we build infrastructure because it improves the lives of citizens, sometimes we build infrastructure because it supports associated industries (see TMX) and sometimes we build infrastructure because it could help attract new investment from outside the province and send an important signal about what this province is all about.
 
IanO said:
call me when Alberta is 10,000,000 people.
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Brilliant strategy: wait until the current infrastructure is so stressed that we can't avoid building something else.
Considering that it would take anywhere from 5-10 years to build it, if we wait until the population reaches 10M, we'll see it running by the time it reacher 12-13M, IF it ever gets there.
We should start planning and building it soon, so that by the time the population reaches critical mass, it's already there, and it makes part of the province's dynamic, already.
 
Edmcowboy11 said:
I just wish that Alberta could start taking on a European or Asian point of view regarding train transportation.
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Attitudes have (very slowly) begun to change a bit since I moved here from Europe in 1993, but there is a loooooong way to go unfortunately. The car-first mentality is very deeply engrained here.
 
ChazYEG said:
Brilliant strategy: wait until the current infrastructure is so stressed that we can't avoid building something else.
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This is already happening. IMO Highway 2 is nearing capacity, its so much busier than it was even 5 years ago. I drive it regularly and am now running into slowdowns due to just traffic on a semi-regular basis. Making it 3 lanes is only going to delay the inevitable. I firmly believe that having a high speed option that saves you an hour, especially in bad weather, would be a great option for a significant minority of people using that road.
 
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