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Commuter & Regional Rail

HappyJazzz said:
Well I couldn't find any info on what train they are planning to use on the Cascade routes, I did find this report which confirms what you said about diminishing returns.

infrastructure.aecom.com

How fast is too fast for high-speed rail?

The right speed for a high-speed rail line comes down to trade-offs among many important factors. So how do regulators, investors, developers and other stakeholders ultimately decide what the optimal speed should be?
infrastructure.aecom.com infrastructure.aecom.com

It does seem like 300 kph is the overall sweet spot, and that could still be fast enough to do the DT to DT trip in not much more than an hour, which should be the service goal for the line IMO.
Click to expand...
Nothing is actually being used in the Cascades (edit: they are replacing the old Talgo train sets with Siemens Chargers and new Venture series coaches but this is just refreshing existing capabilities rather than going high speed). Nothing is as of yet being done. It's being studied. Again. After being studied at various times in the past. Like the Edmonton-Calgary route, there is no definitive plan to actually do anything. They are indeed studying the possibility of up to 400km/h, but that isn't actually realistic and that they're wasting time and money on it does not bode well for the Cascades route ever getting above 127 km/h. It is an indication of how unserious they are about actually doing anything. Edmonton-Calgary has likewise been studied in the past, high speed service recommended, and nothing has been done. Now we are studying it again.

Downtown to downtown in an hour would indeed take significantly faster than 300 km/h and no stops and a completely new right of way.
 
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HappyJazzz said:
Oh come on now, what's sad and pathetic about a G7 nation being beaten to the HSR punch by a country that was being bombed into oblivion 50 years ago...

Click to expand...
The relevant differences between us and them is not that they were bombed into oblivion decades ago (btw so were Japan and Germany and they recovered nicely since then too), or they are not as well off as us.

HSR is very attractive in places with a big population and not too physically large, which Vietnam is and Canada is not. Also it actually works better in some lower income countries because it can me more affordable than flying.
 
David A said:
The relevant differences between us and them is not that they were bombed into oblivion decades ago (btw so were Japan and Germany and they recovered nicely since then too), or they are not as well off as us.

HSR is very attractive in places with a big population and not too physically large, which Vietnam is and Canada is not. Also it actually works better in some lower income countries because it can me more affordable than flying.
Click to expand...

Wasn't really thinking of the AB project, more poking fun at the Laurentian's inability to take care of their own interests in "the corridor".

And not to harp on the point, but compared to our southern neighbours Canada *is* a lower income country.

Competent management would have had a lower cost transportation solution for the people in their main population region ages ago...
 
Coprolite said:
Downtown to downtown in an hour would indeed take significantly faster than 300 km/h and no stops and a completely new right of way.
Click to expand...

Taking my targets from the AECOM report I linked.

1000005945.png


They claim a 500 km journey, with three stops (YEG, RD, YYC) can be done in 2 hours at 300kph.

As the Edm/Cal city centers are closer to 300 km apart, the journey should be doable in ~1.25 hours.

So maybe DT to DT in an hour is a stretch, but airport to airport in hour seems reasonable.
 
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HappyJazzz said:
Taking my targets from the AECOM report I linked.

View attachment 624277

They claim a 500 km journey, with three stops (YEG, RD, YYC) can be done in 2 hours at 300kph.

As the Edm/Cal city centers are closer to 300 km apart, the journey should be doable in ~1.25 hours.

So maybe DT to DT in an hour is a stretch, but airport to airport in hour seems reasonable.
Click to expand...
Downtown to downtown in an hour isn't just a stretch. It requires instant acceleration to top speed and zero stops. The graph you provide is optimistic because it assumes perfect track engineering with no need to ever slow for a turn, while getting from downtown Calgary to the edge of Calgary will require lower speed operations unless the builder is going to SimCity Bulldozer a corridor through Calgary and you don't care about noise pollution. Ditto the edge of Red Deer to downtown Red Deer. Ditto the edge of Edmonton to downtown Edmonton. And then there's topography to contend with because the corridor is not anywhere near as stereotypically flat as some people think it is.

If you scroll down past that chart, the article authors actually get into some of the variables that limit ability to operate at top speed.

Back in the 2008 study, the more realistic travel time put forth was 1:35 for a 320 km/h TGV type HSR, while 1 hour would require a then prototype Siemens maglev with a top speed of 480 km/h.
 
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Coprolite said:
Downtown to downtown in an hour isn't just a stretch. It requires instant acceleration to top speed and zero stops. The graph you provide is optimistic because it assumes perfect track engineering with no need to ever slow for a turn, while getting from downtown Calgary to the edge of Calgary will require lower speed operations unless the builder is going to SimCity Bulldozer a corridor through Calgary and you don't care about noise pollution. Ditto the edge of Red Deer to downtown Red Deer. Ditto the edge of Edmonton to downtown Edmonton. And then there's topography to contend with because the corridor is not anywhere near as stereotypically flat as some people think it is.

If you scroll down past that chart, the article authors actually get into some of the variables that limit ability to operate at top speed.

Back in the 2008 study, the more realistic travel time put forth was 1:35 for a 320 km/h TGV type HSR, while 1 hour would require a then prototype Siemens maglev with a top speed of 480 km/h.
Click to expand...

A report created in Canada in the 21st century referencing everything in MPH?

Into the trash it goes...

That said, this table stood out before I clicked x.

1000005967.png


Anything less than the fastest option doesn't displace enough intercity air traffic, and if you aren't taking that off the table, then there's no point in bothering at all.

As to your concern trolling on routes and noise, seriously have no idea what you're on about..

In Calgary nose creek is wide open and ready to go, no bulldozing needed.

Ditto in red deer, where the station is anticipated to be on the west side of hwy 2 near the college. Again, wide open there.

And the direct route into Edmonton via the gateway corridor deserves to be bulldozed, we should welcome any pretext to do so with open arms!

But don't let any of that stop you from believing things can't be done. :)
 
HappyJazzz said:
A report created in Canada in the 21st century referencing everything in MPH?

Into the trash it goes...

That said, this table stood out before I clicked x.

View attachment 624337

Anything less than the fastest option doesn't displace enough intercity air traffic, and if you aren't taking that off the table, then there's no point in bothering at all.

As to your concern trolling on routes and noise, seriously have no idea what you're on about..

In Calgary nose creek is wide open and ready to go, no bulldozing needed.

Ditto in red deer, where the station is anticipated to be on the west side of hwy 2 near the college. Again, wide open there.

And the direct route into Edmonton via the gateway corridor deserves to be bulldozed, we should welcome any pretext to do so with open arms!

But don't let any of that stop you from believing things can't be done. :)
Click to expand...

I agree that you have no idea what I'm on about or anyone who knows anything is on about. I understand that you have never actually ridden HSR in real world operation and have never observed how such services interact with urban landscapes. I understand that you lack interest in the tangible challenges and that you are choosing to parse any kind of understanding of what the real world challenges are as "it can't be done".

And, yeah, for whatever reason the rail industry in Canada and Transport Canada in reference to rail does tend to use 'mph' as its preferred unit of speed. Not only do they use miles as a unit of distance, but they use non-metric tons as a unit of weight, feet as a unit of car length, and other archaic measurements even in this day and age. I am sorry that they have been so inconsiderate to you.
 
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