Edmonton City Centre Mall (Renovations) | ?m | 2s | LaSalle Investment Management

[Markyeg]

Does anybody have any insight into what the leasing rates were per sqft? Over on Reddit somebody posted that they were out to lunch with what they were trying to charge considering the reduced foot traffic and so many empty spaces.

Maybe a new owner should reduce the leasing rates and slowly increase them on renewals when warranted (ie. the mall has fewer empty spaces).

 

[johnnyboy]

Aren't they only in the office 'one day' a week?

I know it's two days for some teams there, with discussions to increase to three.

 

[NicolBolas]

Remember when Holt Renfrew considered taking the old Bay space? (Sportschek/Atmosphere)

Remember BMO, I member

 

[Seamusmuldrew]

Edmonton is not a dieing rust belt type city and its downtown should be thriving - however, until all levels of government in Canada start to get more proactive about crime and punishment, enforcing crime and having tougher laws against selling and using hard core drugs Edmonton's downtown will flounder. Most citizens, investment and people in general avoid the downtown because its not safe, not fun or family friendly and its dirty. People don't want to go downtown and see all the human waste and carnage taking place. If governments can address this issue then more investment and people should start flowing into downtown, but without significant changes to public safety no real improvements will take place. The last time I was in Edmonton the only reason I went downtown was to show my kid about the dangers of taking drugs.

Boring! Can we keep this kind of unproductive and tired monologue in here please?

 

[archited]

^ or here...

 

[Offworld]

Could be an opportunity to double down on education. If retail isn't feasible, converting into classrooms could be a relatively low lift (e.g. Enterprise Square). That would also work well with some limited retail, food court, hotel, movie theater and public transit connections.

From those I know in the downtown market there, I've been told that Enterprise Square has turned out to be a big fat zero. The times I've walked through there, there's almost zero (live) bodies around, and the layout isn't exactly functional.

Let's not aspire ECC West to be Enterprise Square.

 

[Offworld]

I know this might not be a popular opinion, but I think the Delta Hotel should relocate. It’s the only salvageable business on that side, and the city would be better served if it moved into a standalone building (either new or an office conversion). That would free up the west side to be transformed into something else.

You've been reading my mind. And I'm not sure you should dig any deeper than that!

 

[Out of Towner]

A vision for downtown Edmonton doesn't currently exist. Offices? Retail? Residential? Hope isn't a strategy but even the economic development executive admits that it's all that the city administrators have. They hope that somebody with a good plan is going to revive the city center mall and by extension spring board the downtown to life before the hoodlums can gain more ground.

Somebody should tell the city administrators about the urban national park strategy that the federal government is preparing to advance and coordination an economic growth strategy to take full advantage of it. But just watch council approve another ad hoc project like Dub's river valley proposal without having a understanding of the bigger picture.

 

[kcantor]

^
Are you implying that not approving Dub’s project would somehow have a positive impact on the future of Edmonton City Centre in particular and downtown in general?

Or that declaring one or both locations as an urban national park would somehow have a positive impact on the future of Edmonton City Centre in particular and downtown in general?

 

[Gus Haynes]

I'm not even sure the UCP would permit a national urban park within Edmonton, as long as the federal government is led by the Liberals:

In introducing the third reading in the legislature, Lunty said "a hostile federal government and faceless bureaucrats in Ottawa, most of whom have never stepped foot in our beautiful province, do not have our best interests at heart as they attempt to dictate terms directly with our municipalities without the province having a voice on behalf of all Albertans."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/new-bill-allows-alberta-government-to-set-conditions-for-national-urban-park-decisions-1.7177597

 

[Out of Towner]

^
Are you implying that not approving Dub’s project would somehow have a positive impact on the future of Edmonton City Centre in particular and downtown in general?

Or that declaring one or both locations as an urban national park would somehow have a positive impact on the future of Edmonton City Centre in particular and downtown in general?

My point was that downtown's path forward is based largely on hope rather than an economic development strategy which, for example, would be impacted by a national urban park. Exactly how Dub's project would interact with a national urban parks plan is an unknown. It could have a positive economic impact but it's also possible that it could interfere with an urban park. Rather than a residential development, the land in question might best be suited for a hotel or some supporting buildings in a park development. The article that Gus just posted shows that an MLA that doesn't even represent Edmonton decided to introduce a Bill to engage the Province in an ideological fight with Ottawa. At some point though enough is enough and the Mayor and city council need to take a stand because decisions about the park need to be made as hope is not a strategy. It's been 3 years since the city expressed interest in the program and there's still no clarity on the direction that the city take regarding it. That's not helpful to anybody.

 

[IanO]

Do they have housing in Banff or Jasper? I thought that a boutique hotel might be included, but either way, perhaps short-term works there for visitors.

 

[David A]

A vision for downtown Edmonton doesn't currently exist. Offices? Retail? Residential? Hope isn't a strategy but even the economic development executive admits that it's all that the city administrators have. They hope that somebody with a good plan is going to revive the city center mall and by extension spring board the downtown to life before the hoodlums can gain more ground.

Somebody should tell the city administrators about the urban national park strategy that the federal government is preparing to advance and coordination an economic growth strategy to take full advantage of it. But just watch council approve another ad hoc project like Dub's river valley proposal without having a understanding of the bigger picture.

TINA - nothing is happening with the mall because there is no alternative in this area. There is no strong demand for office, retail or residential in this particular area now. The alternatives that keep on getting presented are based on hope, not strategy or vision and that is why they don't happen. If there was stronger demand in the area, then the long empty lot to the south of the mall (the former BMO/Tegler buildings) would have been developed by now.

Any significant change to the mall would require a lot of work, money and effort, so unless or until there is a clear alternative that works financially, they will not happen.

The current city council and administration has little interest in the downtown economy beyond responding/dealing with problems and even less interest in business or economic development beyond the obvious and easy mostly suburban, industrial projects.

 

[cmd uw]

TINA - nothing is happening with the mall because there is no alternative in this area. There is no strong demand for office, retail or residential in this particular area now. The alternatives that keep on getting presented are based on hope, not strategy or vision and that is why they don't happen. If there was stronger demand in the area, then the long empty lot to the south of the mall (the former BMO/Tegler buildings) would have been developed by now.

Any significant change to the mall would require a lot of work, money and effort, so unless or until there is a clear alternative that works financially, they will not happen.

The current city council and administration has little interest in the downtown economy beyond responding/dealing with problems and even less interest in business or economic development beyond the obvious and easy mostly suburban, industrial projects.

Contrary to your remarks the only valuable part of the mall are the office buildings believe it or not and the parkade(s). These towers have performed fairly well and continue to maintain a decent occupancy ~ 80%+.

Demand for downtown residential is also fine as new product is being leased up and newer buildings continue to see strong demand and lower vacancies versus dated product. Westrich has an aggressive pipeline of projects that are u/c and proposed which will add a fair amount of density in the Warehouse/Education District (106 to 108 Streets, Jasper to 102 Avenue). I expect to see Autograph push to start their Shift 2.0 within the next several months, keep an eye on Parks Phase 2, and the old Healy Ford site is being rezoned right now.

Retail is generally soft and has been for awhile. Until we see more companies start to get people back into the office (a trend that has recently picking up) and more residents living in the downtown core I expect demand to continue to be soft with some pockets (good corners) performing better than others. Keep in mind this is for the core area only. Wikhwentowin is different given that it has a decent amount of density and is growing.

 

[Out of Towner]

Do they have housing in Banff or Jasper? I thought that a boutique hotel might be included, but either way, perhaps short-term works there for visitors.

The establishment and development of an urban national park in the river valley would be a transformative project with generational implications for the city and it should be an election issue. At the same time, it's 3 years in and a decision on the feasibility of a feasibility study hasn't been made yet but council is going to make a decision on Dub's project which very well could impact the river valley. As others are pointing out, the leadership to get things done in an orderly fashion just isn't there.

Getting a mandate from the electorate on the desirability of an urban national park is probably the first step in the process. Then work with the Feds and create a holistic plan. Finally, allow groups like Dub and others to do their parts within the framework of the plan.