IanO
Superstar
I'd buy some beers for someone to graph the %/complete over time for the life of the project.
Valley Line LRT | TransEd/Marigold | City of Edmonton
- Thread starter Daveography
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The_Cat
Senior Member
Maybe these will prevent crashes:
The_Cat
Senior Member
Zeno''s Paradox, or asymptotic convergence!
Greenspace
Senior Member
No crossing guards. Rule - Just don't run into or get run over by a tram or it's your fault!
Windermere
Active Member
Can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I agree with Lorne Gunter - probably the first time ever. The sensory overload part specifically. It is widely known that humans can't focus or task more than three things at a time. I have a feeling the City is going to have to pivot and install gates at some point or simply accept that crashes are going to be a common occurrence for the foreseeable future of this line. I think other cities have done the latter - just accepted the risk and deal with it as it happens. There are many examples in other cities of vehicles crashing into trains with this type of line. While yes, drivers are to blame, you also have to acknowledge that the train line simply being present at grade is why the crashes are happening. It adds another variable into the things that drivers have to process in real time.
edmontonsun.com
GUNTER: Even if car-LRT crashes aren't city's fault, they're still the city's problem to fix
The city is going to have to do something to prevent “unplanned physical interaction” between Edmonton drivers and its trains.
edmontonsun.com
Seamusmuldrew
Active Member
“Not fixing the signals and signs along the route after all these crashes would be the equivalent of not fixing all those piers in which cracks were discovered last year.”Can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I agree with Lorne Gunter - probably the first time ever. The sensory overload part specifically. It is widely known that humans can't focus or task more than three things at a time. I have a feeling the City is going to have to pivot and install gates at some point or simply accept that crashes are going to be a common occurrence for the foreseeable future of this line. I think other cities have done the latter - just accepted the risk and deal with it as it happens. There are many examples in other cities of vehicles crashing into trains with this type of line. While yes, drivers are to blame, you also have to acknowledge that the train line simply being present at grade is why the crashes are happening. It adds another variable into the things that drivers have to process in real time.
GUNTER: Even if car-LRT crashes aren't city's fault, they're still the city's problem to fix
The city is going to have to do something to prevent “unplanned physical interaction” between Edmonton drivers and its trains.
Has Gunter EVER had a good take? Like even just once?
Perhaps I should have said that I agree with certain parts of the article. Gunter does have the tendency to use hyperbole to get his point across.
CaptainBL
Active Member
But wait, I thought the delays in construction weren't going to cost the city any money according to Sohi
Seamusmuldrew
Active Member
I really just don't see total false equivalencies as good points. I can see the perspective that the city should do something about the incidents, however the immediate finger pointing that always happens toward the city and its partners (transed) when for years the information on how this line will work has been available to the public is totally unjustified. It's typical for people in this city to always find someone other than drivers to blame. In 2021 there were 17,000 total car collisions including 16 fatalities and I really don't hear that much in calls for improving intersection and road design in this city, and certainly not from the pro-car people (because it'd probably involve making roads narrower and slowing people down); In 5 months there has been 6 or so crashes involving the train, none of them fatal, and none of them being the fault of the train and now the city is negligent, they should be blamed for poor driving, and more money should be spent because all of the intersections need to be completely reevaluated and redesigned. If someone can't balance paying attention to more than one thing while they're driving more than a ton of metal at high speeds, they absolutely should not be allowed to drive.
The_Cat
Senior Member
Valley Line Ride from Downtown to Muttart:
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Bad drivers suddenly mad it's harder to be bad drivers without personal consequences. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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occidentalcapital
Senior Member
We have traffic circles and we've gotten used to them.
We can get used to mixed roadways with trams.
We can get used to mixed roadways with trams.
You give the general public way too much credit. There is a saying in political circles that goes something like always assume the public are idiots until they aren't. Is this a cynical way of thinking about things? Absolutely. It is true though. The wider public has received a two sided pamphlet in the mail so far so direct marketing - most people probably tossed in the trash. Behaviour takes time to change - if anything, more change management needs to take place.
I'm not saying it's squarely on the City, transed or drivers. It definitely doesn't need to be an either or argument nor should it be. Multiple factors and variables are at play - it can be both the fault of drivers, marketing or poor design.
As for being able to pay attention to multiple things, that more or less applies to all of humanity. Very few people can fully multitask more than a few variables. Sensory overload is real. Try to have a conversation about multiple topics at the same time and be engaged in each. Most people can't do it.
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