Jasper Gates Redevelopment | 90m | 30s | RioCan | Stantec

[Platinum107]

This makes zero sense to me.

Converting the Safeway to FreshCo meant the removal of most of the in-store services, like the bakery, deli, florist and hot meal counter. There is a large seniors' complex nearby, with many residents who don't drive. They now lack a full-service supermarket within walking distance and instead have a Sobeys knockoff of No Frills--and the real thing was already right across the street. The nearest full-service stores (Safeway Meadowlark, Safeway Terra Losa, Save-on-Foods Mayfield) are a long way away.

I happened to be in St. Albert a few weeks back and checked out the Gateway FreshCo, which was also a Safeway conversion--and also right next door to a big seniors' complex. I was walking past the pharmacy and an elderly lady was loudly berating the pharmacist: "Why did you take out the bakery, deli and meat counter? Now I have to go elsewhere for these services!" The impact on seniors and carless residents in Jasper Gates will likely be similar.

Local government and community leaders talk about the importance of having services like supermarkets in neighbourhoods in order to keep districts vital and attractive to existing and prospective residents. But clearly it's just as important to have the RIGHT kind of supermarket.

But you're not thinking from the perspective of a senior who used to have a full-service Safeway on her doorstep and now faces a lengthy bus ride or costly taxi ride to Meadowlark or Terra Losa. A lot of people in the area don't drive and it's tough to take groceries on a bus.

I like how you're looking from the seniors' perspective, which many people don't do. I would argue, however, that while the loss of a full-service grocery store is definitely an inconvenience for the next little while, maybe this along with bigger things happening like the valley line and subsequent revitalization of the area will allow smaller local delis, bakeries, and to-go-meal options to move in and serve these residents

 

[occidentalcapital]

Love to, except I don't live in that neighbourhood. I'm sure there are plenty of quality local candidates to take on that campaign.

That's presumptuous. Even if there were, what gives you the right to tell the "quality local candidates" what to focus on? And, where exactly would these candidates be doing this work, the community league?

In any event, this is moot, because the entire shopping complex is slated for redevelopment.

 

[David A]

I like how you're looking from the seniors' perspective, which many people don't do. I would argue, however, that while the loss of a full-service grocery store is definitely an inconvenience for the next little while, maybe this along with bigger things happening like the valley line and subsequent revitalization of the area will allow smaller local delis, bakeries, and to-go-meal options to move in and serve these residents

Maybe there will be world peace too. I agree with the concern about what has been lost. Perhaps something else will replace it but until there are specific names, dates and locations for such things, the problem will remain.

 

[TravellingChris]

That's presumptuous. Even if there were, what gives you the right to tell the "quality local candidates" what to focus on? And, where exactly would these candidates be doing this work, the community league?

In any event, this is moot, because the entire shopping complex is slated for redevelopment.

I've made my point, Oxy is clearly in a mood and looking for a fight. I'm not going to engage.

 

[thommyjo]

But you're not thinking from the perspective of a senior who used to have a full-service Safeway on her doorstep and now faces a lengthy bus ride or costly taxi ride to Meadowlark or Terra Losa. A lot of people in the area don't drive and it's tough to take groceries on a bus.

I agree. I’m not thinking about it as a senior, I’m thinking about it as the business owners who have to first think about profit. While more grocery stores would be great for seniors, it doesn’t mean it’s financially viable and sustainable. I was just trying to point out that the reason may be because of their overall store strategy and spacing of locations.

As a resident 3 blocks from that store, it’s definitely the last thing from a food desert. There are 3 grocery stores I can walk to in 15-20mins, not including shoppers/bella food land/convenience stores, which are also plentiful. Within a 10min drive we probably have 8 options? Basically every major player, Walmart, save on, no frills, Safeway, freshco, costco, superstore, wholesale club, some independents.

I get the lost convenience for some, it’s not ideal. But that’s also business and development patterns. Doesn’t help that much of the surrounding area is also lower income and at the bottom of the neighbourhood lifecycle (I.e. lots of seniors and widows still in homes, lower kid populations).

 

[TravellingChris]

I agree. I’m not thinking about it as a senior, I’m thinking about it as the business owners who have to first think about profit. While more grocery stores would be great for seniors, it doesn’t mean it’s financially viable and sustainable. I was just trying to point out that the reason may be because of their overall store strategy and spacing of locations.

As a resident 3 blocks from that store, it’s definitely the last thing from a food desert. There are 3 grocery stores I can walk to in 15-20mins, not including shoppers/bella food land/convenience stores, which are also plentiful. Within a 10min drive we probably have 8 options? Basically every major player, Walmart, save on, no frills, Safeway, freshco, costco, superstore, wholesale club, some independents.

I get the lost convenience for some, it’s not ideal. But that’s also business and development patterns. Doesn’t help that much of the surrounding area is also lower income and at the bottom of the neighbourhood lifecycle (I.e. lots of seniors and widows still in homes, lower kid populations).

While the area is definitely not a food desert, remember what most of the options are offering: No Frills, Shoppers, FreshCo, etc. is largely prepackaged food. There's no butcher shop, florist, in-store bakery to get a cake decorated. Most importantly a senior may have to buy a "club pack" of meat or cheese whereas at a deli, they can buy 100g or 200g of something as needed. It's more affordable for them and a lot less potential food waste!

Save-on Mayfield and Meadowlark Safeway have the full range of services but require wheels to get to, which many area residents don't have.

 

[roe_]

This is a strange debate. Some people might prefer a Safeway in Jasper Gates, but frankly that is irrelevant. Sobey's made a business decision that their lower cost label would be more profitable in that location than their mid-tier label. The fact that there is a No Frills nearby doesn't suggest there is no room for a low cost grocer, it suggests the market in this area is cost sensitive. I've shopped at that Safeway and it was never terribly busy, so it's not a surprise that they decided to reformat. Regardless of what we might want, this is about money, not whether grandma can pick up a birthday cake and her prescription at the same place.

 

[Platinum107]

This is a strange debate. Some people might prefer a Safeway in Jasper Gates, but frankly that is irrelevant. Sobey's made a business decision that their lower cost label would be more profitable in that location than their mid-tier label. The fact that there is a No Frills nearby doesn't suggest there is no room for a low cost grocer, it suggests the market in this area is cost sensitive. I've shopped at that Safeway and it was never terribly busy, so it's not a surprise that they decided to reformat. Regardless of what we might want, this is about money, not whether grandma can pick up a birthday cake and her prescription at the same place.

Ikr, this particular topic which feels irrelevant to this thread or even website seems to be getting some people pretty heated for... some reason. Didn't think a reminder that this is the form for the Jasper Gates Redevelopment should be mainly focused on updates and info about the project at hand, not a long-winded debate about full service vs. low-cost grocery stores and how it affects seniors . Save that discussion for your neighborhood Facebook group please.

Well, I guess you guys can talk about it if you want to, but in the end it'll just make us angry at each other for no reason imo.

 

[Kaizen]

Yes, thank you @Platinum107, et al, this grocery Jasper Gates Redevelopment discussion has veered off to the "Spam" aisle, unfortunately.
It's noticed in a few other threads (as well) that the discussion gets derailed for some reason or another. Any such further posting will be deleted, this is the wrong website for misleading/provocative posting. Otherwise post away, post often, and enjoy!
As a reminder, here is the Code of Conduct for our site.

 

[northlands]

I think healthy discussion on this sort of stuff is the reason for the forum.

 

[Kaizen]

Yes of course @nv96 healthy discussion, for sure.

 

[archited]

Health food aisle?

 

[thommyjo]

To bring it back on topic, what does the opening of freshco mean for the timeline of this development? Is it still 10+ years away?

Westblock has their 2nd tower and blue Chicago over on 142. Will 149 be able to develop as well, or have to wait its turn?

 

[Airboy]

Don't expect Blue Chicago to go anytime soon. Jasper Gate has a better chance of still moving forward. Just might be phased slower.

 

[occidentalcapital]

LRT should help move this along. This is an institutional developer/landlord compared to local for Blue Chicago, so I could see it going before other redevelopments in the area.