Winspear Centre Completion Project | 29.87m | 4s | Winspear Centre | Andrew Bromberg

What do you think of this project?

  • Total voters
    51
The idea that the province is going to pitch in for the demolition of the Coliseum is a fantasy. The old unspoken tit for tat treatment of Edmonton and Calgary by the province is over. Calgary will get money and we won't, it's not right but it's reality. The Coliseum needs to go, its been a dead blight on our neighborhood for nearly a decade now. It's an ugly concrete pile that is not worth saving as any potential reuse would be much cheaper to build from scratch. Better to use that money to save truly significant structures like the powerplant or filling in the 118 ave LRT hole and building the two new LRT stations. Its an embarrassment that the City has yet to deal with the Coliseum.

This is distracting from the real issue, a DOUBLING of the Winspear project cost since the funding was awarded. It's not even primarily inflation! They kept adding bells and whistles until the project ballooned way out of budget. I am a regular patron of the ESO and most years buy a subscription. Love the Winspear but this this project has gotten way out of hand. The City should think very carefully about rescuing the Winspear foundation from this, we have our own financial problems to deal with. This chart from the report is very informative.

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SarcasticMarmot said:
The idea that the province is going to pitch in for the demolition of the Coliseum is a fantasy. The old unspoken tit for tat treatment of Edmonton and Calgary by the province is over. Calgary will get money and we won't, it's not right but it's reality. The Coliseum needs to go, its been a dead blight on our neighborhood for nearly a decade now. It's an ugly concrete pile that is not worth saving as any potential reuse would be much cheaper to build from scratch. Better to use that money to save truly significant structures like the powerplant or filling in the 118 ave LRT hole and building the two new LRT stations. Its an embarrassment that the City has yet to deal with the Coliseum.

This is distracting from the real issue, a DOUBLING of the Winspear project cost since the funding was awarded. It's not even primarily inflation! They kept adding bells and whistles until the project ballooned way out of budget. I am a regular patron of the ESO and most years buy a subscription. Love the Winspear but this this project has gotten way out of hand. The City should think very carefully about rescuing the Winspear foundation from this, we have our own financial problems to deal with. This chart from the report is very informative.

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Yeah, I was going to say, this isn’t “we went over budget a bit cause inflation”.

This feels like complete mismanagement of a massive capital project without clear fundraising capabilities. If the grants don’t exist, nor the contacts to raise tens of millions, why is the project scope so large?
 
CplKlinger said:
4. Stage the completion to allow for a component of the expansion to be funded at a later date, with priority given to programming and developing spaces that can return programming revenue. Specifically, it would be phased in this order of priority: a) Complete all Concert Hall side renovations; b) Develop Level 1 in expansion building, programming studios, and administration spaces; c) Complete parkade and plaza components; and d) Complete the Music Box. The Music Box would be phased last because it represents the most costly and complicated portion, and is an "appealing asset" for a fundraising campaign.
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Is there any real risk to this option? It kind of sounds fine?

Like, the Music Box sounds great and I'm excited to one day go to concerts there. But when I think about what's really exciting and necessary, it's the programming/educational spaces, not a new concert hall.
 
constance_chlore said:
Is there any real risk to this option? It kind of sounds fine?
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This is what the report says:

"Winspear has indicated that staging is not the most efficient construction sequencing as general contractor and trades are mobilizing and demobilizing more often, extended project timelines attract annual inflation escalation and financing costs. It also requires additional engineering and architectural drawings to delineate the scopes of each phase. Preliminary estimates shared suggest an additional $900K of engineering and architectural fees (currently not contemplated in the budget) to further break down the phases."
 
SarcasticMarmot said:
The idea that the province is going to pitch in for the demolition of the Coliseum is a fantasy. The old unspoken tit for tat treatment of Edmonton and Calgary by the province is over. Calgary will get money and we won't, it's not right but it's reality. The Coliseum needs to go, its been a dead blight on our neighborhood for nearly a decade now. It's an ugly concrete pile that is not worth saving as any potential reuse would be much cheaper to build from scratch. Better to use that money to save truly significant structures like the powerplant or filling in the 118 ave LRT hole and building the two new LRT stations. Its an embarrassment that the City has yet to deal with the Coliseum.

This is distracting from the real issue, a DOUBLING of the Winspear project cost since the funding was awarded. It's not even primarily inflation! They kept adding bells and whistles until the project ballooned way out of budget. I am a regular patron of the ESO and most years buy a subscription. Love the Winspear but this this project has gotten way out of hand. The City should think very carefully about rescuing the Winspear foundation from this, we have our own financial problems to deal with. This chart from the report is very informative.

View attachment 626843
Click to expand...

Why did they add a $9m parkade? Library parkade is right across the street and has plenty of space, and it's directly next to all three LRT lines. That seems absurd, especially after the city removed parking minimums and has goals of reduced car trips.
 
I believe there's only one storey of underground parking, plus new back-of-house loading/unloading areas. My guess is that cost also includes foundation work and separate fire/mechanical.

Also this does or doesn't include the cost of district energy which Winspear is officially the only building signed up to use it at this point.
 
constance_chlore said:
I can only speculate, but I could imagine that there are some powerful donors/administrators who considered it a priority to be able to zip in and out without interacting with the various characters downtown, and who would certainly never deign to take public transit.
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Sadly you're probably right. They might even be above using the unclean public parkade :rolleyes:
 
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As a reminder, here's what option five is:

Interim financing to complete construction until final funding can be secured
Under the MGA municipalities are able to loan money to non-profit organizations. Such a loan would require an amendment to the current lending bylaw. Given the challenges in identifying an appropriate funding source discussed throughout this report, interim financing is considered risky for both parties. The Winspear has indicated that any interim financing would need to be guaranteed and permanent, as they would be unable to take on any additional repayment obligations similar to the existing $12.9 million parkade loan if final funding cannot be secured. This option is risky for both the City and the Winspear. If Winspear is unable to secure funding current options would not be sufficient to repay the interim financing which would require the City to identify an alternative source of funding.
 
It is probably in everyone's interests for this project to be completed at this point, although questions arise about how well this project has been managed which should also be looked into further.

So I feel further funding by the city should only be provided if the city auditor is permitted to review the cost increases fully and the Winspear provides adequate security and guarantees for any additional loans.
 
Surely this delta in funding was known to some degree for a while, no? Why wasn't this brought up in the fall budget adjustment?
 
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