Valley Line LRT/ Valley Line West | ?m | ?s | City of Edmonton
- Thread starter Daveography
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Kosy123
Active Member
How much of this unseasonably warm weather has been helping construction so far? I’m not as knowledgeable on the effects of that, but I’m guessing the fact it’s going to be quite decent out helps with progress?
J_gordo
Active Member
I’d say quite a lot. The summer was also very good for construction with little rain. Marigold has been able to continue drainage work for an extra month, and pour the concrete deck for the SPR bridge well into November.
Seamusmuldrew
Active Member
Sure, but I don’t think anybody is sitting for a minute at Muttart thinking “awe if this train would’ve kept going I could eventually have a little bit more accumulated free time over the span of my entire life.” Yeah if you sum it all up, it’s a lot of time, but most people don’t think about anything that way. Why are people so dead set on making this train ever so slightly faster while making huge sacrifices to do it?
daka_x
New Member
Holy moly. OK, I'm just going to chime in as an out-of-towner but good grief, I cannot believe how disappointed I am with the discussion taking place here. If this is the mentality by which Edmontonians are going to think about transit projects, forget about Valley Line SE ever getting to 30,000 riders a day let alone meeting that 2044 target.
I can't believe that this city is launching a new premium service in the wake of an event (COVID-19) that has placed transit systems around the world in financial crisis (also in large part due to the shift in commuting landscape with work-from-home) and there are people trivializing valuable speed and reliability measures that increase ridership. If you don't start to pivot, you will end up turning into the Toronto TTC and end up with similar cuts to services, all-day overcrowding, and crumbling infrastructure that doesn't get maintained.
Crossing arms are a relatively SMALL investment in tools that ensure the public is reminded that they are interfacing with a RAILWAY, so that trains can run at higher speed with higher reliability and fewer mishaps. They are used not just in other LRT systems within Canada (including low-floor ones like Kitchener-Waterloo), but worldwide to great success. Frankly, I don't know of any instance EVER, where someone has actually complained that crossing gates "impact on the landscape" or are "inferior" at "integrating" with the community. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. There are even multiple cities that have found value in adding crossing arms and gates to bus rapid transitways (Los Angeles and Miami-Dade are both doing this). So if this is a "hill you're willing to die on", I won't stop you.
This is about maximizing your billion+ dollar investment, and personally, I would be happy to write to ministers (and organize others to do the same) about withholding future transit funding from Edmonton projects if this is the way you're going to continue planning them.
Yes, this is a threat.
There are plenty of other cities in Canada in transit crisis (including mine) that need infrastructure money now.
But, I also think this is a perfect way to highlight how crossing gates and barriers (Calgary style) would be beneficial. They would allow a train to enter the station at full speed, have an extra short dwell (similar to Sea Island Centre Station in Vancouver), then exit the station at full speed, safely, and without ever slowing for the access crossings. And no one would be talking about skipping the stop due to a lack of riders.
In particular, this is honestly the most terrible take I've read all day amongst the many other problematic ones I see above. Y'all can justify big elevated SkyTrain-like guideway segments but will not justify crossing gates due to some apparent visual aesthetic. Make it make sense?
I can't believe that this city is launching a new premium service in the wake of an event (COVID-19) that has placed transit systems around the world in financial crisis (also in large part due to the shift in commuting landscape with work-from-home) and there are people trivializing valuable speed and reliability measures that increase ridership. If you don't start to pivot, you will end up turning into the Toronto TTC and end up with similar cuts to services, all-day overcrowding, and crumbling infrastructure that doesn't get maintained.
Crossing arms are a relatively SMALL investment in tools that ensure the public is reminded that they are interfacing with a RAILWAY, so that trains can run at higher speed with higher reliability and fewer mishaps. They are used not just in other LRT systems within Canada (including low-floor ones like Kitchener-Waterloo), but worldwide to great success. Frankly, I don't know of any instance EVER, where someone has actually complained that crossing gates "impact on the landscape" or are "inferior" at "integrating" with the community. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. There are even multiple cities that have found value in adding crossing arms and gates to bus rapid transitways (Los Angeles and Miami-Dade are both doing this). So if this is a "hill you're willing to die on", I won't stop you.
Think what you want, but as far as I'm aware the insistence on designing every single surface portion of the Valley Line to be run like a tramway is hurting and not helping. It is costing you speed, reliability, ridership, fare revenue, and the long-term viability of sustaining the transit system when ridership drops. The Valley Line south of Davies Station is clearly designed and built as a railway and should be run as one. It also runs in a part of the city (and at a distance from the city centre) that potential riders of the line, especially those coming in from other connecting transit, would almost certainly value the highest speed that the infrastructure will allow.
This is about maximizing your billion+ dollar investment, and personally, I would be happy to write to ministers (and organize others to do the same) about withholding future transit funding from Edmonton projects if this is the way you're going to continue planning them.
Yes, this is a threat.
There are plenty of other cities in Canada in transit crisis (including mine) that need infrastructure money now.
I really don't like this idea. Yeah, land use sucks whatever, but a station is a station, especially one that isn't too close to another one. People who walk up to it (people do live within walking distance!) should be able to expect that trains will regularly stop there.
But, I also think this is a perfect way to highlight how crossing gates and barriers (Calgary style) would be beneficial. They would allow a train to enter the station at full speed, have an extra short dwell (similar to Sea Island Centre Station in Vancouver), then exit the station at full speed, safely, and without ever slowing for the access crossings. And no one would be talking about skipping the stop due to a lack of riders.
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The_Cat
Senior Member
I could see the Valley Line being popular in short-range segments.
(1) Mill Woods - Millbourne Station
(2) Avonmore - Streathearn Station
(3) Quarters - 107 Street
(4) 112 Street - 124 Street
(5) 134 Street - 156 Street
(6) Misericordia - Lewis Estates
I don't think the average person would have the patience to wait for a bus for a local trip, but the LRT woluld give more options. Someone downtown could head to the Brewery District for lunch. Or someone in Oliver could head to the dentist downtown.
(1) Mill Woods - Millbourne Station
(2) Avonmore - Streathearn Station
(3) Quarters - 107 Street
(4) 112 Street - 124 Street
(5) 134 Street - 156 Street
(6) Misericordia - Lewis Estates
I don't think the average person would have the patience to wait for a bus for a local trip, but the LRT woluld give more options. Someone downtown could head to the Brewery District for lunch. Or someone in Oliver could head to the dentist downtown.
Kosy123
Active Member
I’m seeing a decent chunk of those short term trips in Bonnie Doon and Avonmore when I go on the train tbh.
The Oliver/Downtown trips when VLW opens is something that’ll be extremely popular as well, and I think it’s going to be an underestimated trip generator as Oliver and DT increases in density.
northlands
Senior Member
Been a killer fall for construction, that's for sure.
Gronk!
Senior Member
Kosy123
Active Member
Uhhh okay?
I mean, I have a lot to say based on this specific statement (since the rest of your post was legitimate discussion).
Far be of it from me to even consider saying that a jurisdiction outside this city or province deserves to have their transit funding cut over crossing gates or even threatening to write ministers over it (which is ridiculous, frankly mind-numbingly offensive, divisive and mean spirited)
thommyjo
Senior Member
Totally. I live 2 blocks from the glenwood/Sherwood stop and plan to use is a lot for:
1. WEM (3 stops)
2. Meadowlark/Jasper Gates for groceries/retail (1 & 2 stops)
3. grovenor for west block retail (3 stops)
4. 124st (5 stops)
5. then the main 3 downtown stops for accessing events, restaurants, library, festivals. (9,10,11 stops).
When I used the capital line for UofA, basically no one got off at Southgate/south campus/mckernan. Then a good chunk Health sciences, tons UofA, some downtown. And few after that.
I suspect ridership will have a lot more mixed destinations for valley line and also off peak use vs just commuting downtown on weekdays, which is more how the capital line got built.
fungus_eater
New Member
Lol...If you really think like this...I honestly have no words. I think you are taking this WAY too seriously and need to take a break from any urbanist media and movement for the sake of your mental health if you actually reacted like this. It almost feels like you are getting radicalized by less than ideal urbanism perpetuated by urbanist media from NJB, Strong Towns etc (Not saying they are incorrect, but they are only showing one perspective and don't exactly represent the whole paradigm of urbanism). Threatening to cut projects because of less than ideal transit solely due to your own opinion is insane behaviour and crossing the line.
Now getting back on topic:
I think speed isn't the #1 factor that attracts riders. There are also reliability, frequency, convenience, safety, comfort, and cleanliness. I personally would not sacrifice or significantly downgrade any of these aspects just to speed up transit. While VLSE isn't the fastest, I think the other aspects that I mentioned were done quite well so far which will attract other riders. The system is very quiet and blends into the neighbourhood pretty nicely which suits it purpose. If speed is the most important factor, then why is the TTC streetcar the top in ridership?
Even though I have no problems with crossing gates, I can understand how others might not like them too much. Crossing gates do make a lot of loud noise, you can hear dun dun dun dun... every time the train crosses the intersections by Kingsway, Nait and Health Sciences station, etc, and the crossing gates do stay down for a pretty long time which sounds loud and annoy people especially when you're a pedestrian. I also think that when crossing gates come down, everyone automatically pays attention to them creating a mental block for drivers because the visibility of the crossing arms can frustrate drivers as its "blocking" them from going across the intersection. These things cause a negative perception of crossing gates especially for people living near VLSE as most people living there probably drive regularly. So I don't think they would be too fond of crossing gates.
And you said you're from out of town, so have you ever rode the VL in person? I have seen youtube videos of the whole trip and also rode it personally a few times. The youtube video of it feels slow but it honestly doesn't when you actually ride it in person. The ride is a comfortable experience and feels relatively speedy. The people here who said the line was too slow is just one perspective and not a majority one. This line is not like the TTC streetcar where it gets stuck in traffic forever...
ChazYEG
Senior Member
You came here, read ONE day of posts and puts everyone on the same basket.
If you had bothered to read through, you'd have seen that I vehemently oppose the idea of having more elevated sections than the absolute necessary.
Boohoo, I'm scared.
I have federal ministers on my speed dial and you won't see me saying these kinds of things. So please, go ahead and organize your protests, I'll do the same on my end and we'll see how it goes
On a last note: folks like you are the reason why the rest of Canada hates Toronto.
The patronizing tone, the arrogance and the self-centeredness is just baffling.
You probably haven't set foot in Edmonton in ages, if ever, and yet feels like you have any right to use this condescending tone while dictating what should or not work here.
Toronto is not the absolute centre of the universe, like y'all like to believe.
IanO
Senior Member
Wow.
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A CBC investigation into the safety record of TransEd, the consortium that built the $1.8-billion Valley Line Southeast LRT found that injury rates for project workers spiked to more than five times the industry average in 2020. While TransEd has not released its project-wide records publicly, it provided CBC with limited data showing 283 near miss incidents, 350 first aid incidents, 93 medical treatment cases, 14 lost workday cases, and 15 public safety incidents. In a statement, TransEd spokesperson Dallas Lindskoog said records “indicate that TransEd partner companies and all the subcontractors that work for them ... exceed OHS averages and industry norms.” Workplace safety expert Christopher Coles said “a lack of transparency when it comes to health and safety statistics is concerning.”
-Taproot
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A CBC investigation into the safety record of TransEd, the consortium that built the $1.8-billion Valley Line Southeast LRT found that injury rates for project workers spiked to more than five times the industry average in 2020. While TransEd has not released its project-wide records publicly, it provided CBC with limited data showing 283 near miss incidents, 350 first aid incidents, 93 medical treatment cases, 14 lost workday cases, and 15 public safety incidents. In a statement, TransEd spokesperson Dallas Lindskoog said records “indicate that TransEd partner companies and all the subcontractors that work for them ... exceed OHS averages and industry norms.” Workplace safety expert Christopher Coles said “a lack of transparency when it comes to health and safety statistics is concerning.”
-Taproot
J_gordo
Active Member
To be fair, the majority of workers are subcontractors. And I’m not sure if the 2020 numbers are completely fair, seeing as though Transed most likely worked far more hours than any other contractor in Alberta in 2020. They barely shut down for covid. So I’m not sure if that number is completely fair.