David A
Senior Member
I hope so too. We have to try fix some of the past mistakes if we really want a better downtown.
Tower 101 | 175m | 50s | Regency Developments | DER + Associates
- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
CaptainBL
Active Member
This property has been privately shopped on the market by the seller for some time and has not sold. It is definitely for sale and not a test the market listing. The seller is looking for liquidity.
Informationally, a few of the detriments to being privately shopped have been:
1. Recently, institutional capital from outside Edmonton has not had a positive view on downtown for obvious reasons. Institutions are preferring to invest elsewhere with less risk and better returns
2. Downtown office vacancy, commercial and retail vacancy, and general vagrancy
3. The big players in Edmonton that could take on this land/project are tied up (Maclab has a lot of capital tied up in Garneau and the Parks; Pangman is tied up on a couple of large projects like Edmonton Motors not moving forward; AIMCo has refocused their real estate portfolio with less concentration in AB and already owns across the street) and one of the big players, Regency, is selling the property.
So I wouldn't go as far as saying this will go quickly. You may be surprised how slow it goes, especially given it has been privately for sale for some time.
Edit: What this site needs is a buyer from out of town who doesnt know the Edmonton market, doesnt know that CC is vacant and downtown is struggling and looks at this site as "wow a vacant site in the central business district of a major Canadian city!", or, a company not from Edmonton looking to expand into Alberta and build an owner/user office tower.
Last edited:
Vacs
Active Member
also they were closing in on a deal with marriot, then they backed out to go to their current tower
David A
Senior Member
They seem to be the company that can accomplish nothing with this site, so I wouldn't be surprised if this drags on too.
I suspect they are interested in divesting as they have eventually realized this project is beyond them, but not interested enough for it to happen quickly.
bodsbods9090
Senior Member
I wonder if they negotiated with ALT hotel chain at all? Would have a been a good spot for them to jump in on.
BASE
Active Member
This is the best lot available in the city. Sure the current state of city centre and manulife drag it down a bit but it still has many great qualities including:
- New Valley line outside the doors
- A block from metro and capital line
- Very good pedway connections
- 1-2 blocks from ice district
- 1 block from churchill square
- 2-3 blocks from Edmonton Convention center (close enough for a hotel to be used for big conventions)
- Rice Howard way walkability and restaurants
David A
Senior Member
Perhaps City Centre and Manulife would say the current state of this lot drags them down too!
However, I agree it is a prime spot and would make sense for something like ALT hotel. At this point, it wouldn't even involve tearing down another old building - bonus!
CaptainBL
Active Member
This is the unfortunate lens we biased Edmontonians have. However, this is not what the market sees and there are reasons why this site did not transact privately and is now officially hitting the market.
Your points 1 and 2 - interestingly enough this has not spurred development or raised property values. In many other cities if you build a transit line right outside your door, your property values should increase. This has not happened in downtown Edmonton.
Reality is, this is a tough go from a multifamily/hotel site, or an office site. Being on the "wrong side" or the dead side of 101 doesnt help and there are many better and cheaper sites a couple blocks away on 104st and 105st for residential. From a commercial standpoint, the vacancy rate is high and 101 street as of 2019 JLL report was the 4th most expensive commercial street in Canada.
What this site needs is a buyer from out of town who doesnt know the Edmonton market, doesnt know that CC is vacant and downtown is struggling and looks at this site as "wow a vacant site in the central business district of a major Canadian city!", or, a company not from Edmonton looking to expand into Alberta and build an owner/user office tower.
David A
Senior Member
What the site needs is someone with more confidence and vision whether local or from elsewhere. City Centre was a fairly vibrant mall a decade ago, even 5 years ago. Of course no one anticipated how disruptive and damaging COVID would be for it and the area, also there were several shaky years economically for Alberta too before and during COVID.
If all you can see if the present state, then clearly this site is not for you. Maybe it will not be developed until things improve, but then the price of the site will likely go up accordingly perhaps back up to 2019 levels or higher. Yes, it is the dead side of the street, but that is partly due to the fact it is a big empty lot now.
JuliallThat
Active Member
There's so much potential with this site, so central & so connected, with so much potential foot traffic built right into its location.
I can imagine something like a 2-storey outdoor tiered street, that allows pedestrian access on the ground from all 4 corners on the, and open-air pedways on 3 (or 4?) sides on the second storey. This tiered podium should include many small shop and restaurant units, that are sheltered from the busy 101 St but also provided ample opportunity to showcase their presence to passerby with bright and showy signage and glass facades. Not unlike the mall if were not so afraid to show off and get some fresh air.
There are many railings and balcony edges, with many places to loiter comfortably, some designed with heaters roofs and windows where appropriate to ensure all season appeal without being completely enclosed. The prime unit would be a restaurant space that cantilevers out just a little bit over the sidewalk on the corner of 102 Ave & 101 St, allowing guests to catch views down both streets and take in the hustle and bustle of the core. You can also see into this space from the street, increasing the allure of venturing up to the 2nd floor to see what you might be missing. It's important this complex podium be full of both natural and artificial light and many interesting shadows and layered views.
Above this podium a modest 30 floor tower could include a middle market hotel aimed at visitors coming for performances and events, but most of the tower is for rental apartments. The interior finishings need not be spectacular or high-end, but the buildings exterior must be a little showy. Though to be honest it's hard not to visualize this as a brutalist structure with showy and elaborate concrete-work.
I got a little carried away visualizing something cool lol, but I hope whatever ends up here is at least trying to be unique.
It's important to create places that can only exist in a dense city centre, and create the allure of something you wouldn't find anywhere else in the city.
I can imagine something like a 2-storey outdoor tiered street, that allows pedestrian access on the ground from all 4 corners on the, and open-air pedways on 3 (or 4?) sides on the second storey. This tiered podium should include many small shop and restaurant units, that are sheltered from the busy 101 St but also provided ample opportunity to showcase their presence to passerby with bright and showy signage and glass facades. Not unlike the mall if were not so afraid to show off and get some fresh air.
There are many railings and balcony edges, with many places to loiter comfortably, some designed with heaters roofs and windows where appropriate to ensure all season appeal without being completely enclosed. The prime unit would be a restaurant space that cantilevers out just a little bit over the sidewalk on the corner of 102 Ave & 101 St, allowing guests to catch views down both streets and take in the hustle and bustle of the core. You can also see into this space from the street, increasing the allure of venturing up to the 2nd floor to see what you might be missing. It's important this complex podium be full of both natural and artificial light and many interesting shadows and layered views.
Above this podium a modest
I got a little carried away visualizing something cool lol, but I hope whatever ends up here is at least trying to be unique.
It's important to create places that can only exist in a dense city centre, and create the allure of something you wouldn't find anywhere else in the city.
Last edited:
ChazYEG
Senior Member
This is the only thing I would change. I think it would be a crime not to take advantage of having 175m tall that it is approved for. Maybe we could add some office floors right above the podium, then hotel, then apartments, with a few stories for amenities for each of the segments and a rooftop restaurant.
JuliallThat
Active Member
It would definitely be a prime location for a penthouse restaurant with 360 views.
The_Cat
Senior Member
A tower here would be a great connection to many points downtown: 101 Street, Valley Line LRT, City Centre Mall, Rice Howard Way for starters. Residential units would add to downtown's vibrancy.
erudyk_29
Active Member
If the City Centre Mall Redevelopment happens and the LRT opens up I'm sure this area will become a lot more vibrant quickly and it will be a no-brainer to put something interesting here. I could see 102 Ave becoming like Edmonton's Stephen Avenue if some street facing retail pops up and they end up removing cars permanently (which from my understanding seems unlikely at this point unfortunately). I think that downtown will get new life injected into it as some of the other developments around this area start to get pushed through. I see the area just west of the CBD becoming extremely attractive and vibrant in the next decade or so with the planned Warehouse Central Park and all the new residential set to be built. Hopefully some of this life will start to seep back into the CBD.
David A
Senior Member
Yes, it will probably help a lot when the LRT opens up. I still have no idea when that will be, but we must be getting close - 3 months or so is my best guess. The Valley Line people now seem very reticent about deadlines, perhaps because having missed so many they have been burned a number of times.
If the mall actually knew or was confident when it would open that might initiate activity by them to do something like this. It would cost some money to open it up, but wouldn't necessarily have to be a huge expense. It could be as easy as replacing some windows with doors.