The Clancey | 103.02m | 28s | Wexford Developments | DIALOG

[Barnaby]

Boys and girls, The Clancey may be back on the menu.

I'm of the opinion that the Fed's removal of GST on new rentals is great. I hope it applies to projects finishing up this year to free up more capital.

Context: Kendal Harazny is a partner at Wexford Developments.

 

[archited]

This GST announcement could well spur half a dozen rental apartments downtown into "active" status. Those that I would look to see come to life would be Westrich project at 103 Ave./104th Street (Kitty-corner from the Wexford project mentioned here), the Shift (twin towers at 102 Ave./106th Street), the second towers for Falcon (104th Street/100 Ave.) and the Parks (Jasper Ave. and 108th Street), the second 36-storey tower by Qualico and the Milner Bldg. Conversion. On the periphery of possibilities a tower from Katz on 104th Street north of 103rd Avenue, a potential start on Ice District Phase II, some movement on both the Edmontonian (101 Street north of the Qualico development) and the much maligned property on the former site of the Tegler Building, and the property that includes the storage building on 103 Ave. and 104th Street.
I don't for a minute believe that all of these projects will be announced in the same calendar quarter, but the pre-COVID momentum that was lost may bring a sense of development impetus and may be regained with this announcement.
In Oliver there are several projects that could be re-instituted -- the Edmonton Motors twin towers, the Emerald project, the Jasper House project... to name but a few (also the Jameson).
Edmonton just might get its groove back.

 

[dunno]

This GST announcement could well spur half a dozen rental apartments downtown into "active" status. Those that I would look to see come to life would be Westrich project at 103 Ave./104th Street (Kitty-corner from the Wexford project mentioned here), the Shift (twin towers at 102 Ave./106th Street), the second towers for Falcon (104th Street/100 Ave.) and the Parks (Jasper Ave. and 108th Street), the second 36-storey tower by Qualico and the Milner Bldg. Conversion. On the periphery of possibilities a tower from Katz on 104th Street north of 103rd Avenue, a potential start on Ice District Phase II, some movement on both the Edmontonian (101 Street north of the Qualico development) and the much maligned property on the former site of the Tegler Building, and the property that includes the storage building on 103 Ave. and 104th Street.
I don't for a minute believe that all of theses projects will be announced in the same calendar quarter, but the pre-COVID momentum that was lost may bring a sense of development impetus may be regained with this announcement.
In Oliver there are several projects that could be re-instituted -- the Edmonton Motors twin towers, the Emerald project, the Jasper House project... to name but a few (also the Jameson).
Edmonton just might get its groove back.

Here's hoping!

 

[northlands]

Boys and girls, The Clancey may be back on the menu.

I'm of the opinion that the Fed's removal of GST on new rentals is great. I hope it applies to projects finishing up this year to free up more capital.

Context: Kendal Harazny is a partner at Wexford Developments.
View attachment 506422

Wicked. He’s been out spoken on LinkedIn lately about removing taxes on purpose built rentals—yesterday he made a comment about them being “taxed like cigarettes” which I thought was lowkey hilarious. Seriously hoping The Clancey moves ahead now.

 

[IanO]

This GST announcement could well spur half a dozen rental apartments downtown into "active" status. Those that I would look to see come to life would be Westrich project at 103 Ave./104th Street (Kitty-corner from the Wexford project mentioned here), the Shift (twin towers at 102 Ave./106th Street), the second towers for Falcon (104th Street/100 Ave.) and the Parks (Jasper Ave. and 108th Street), the second 36-storey tower by Qualico and the Milner Bldg. Conversion. On the periphery of possibilities a tower from Katz on 104th Street north of 103rd Avenue, a potential start on Ice District Phase II, some movement on both the Edmontonian (101 Street north of the Qualico development) and the much maligned property on the former site of the Tegler Building, and the property that includes the storage building on 103 Ave. and 104th Street.
I don't for a minute believe that all of these projects will be announced in the same calendar quarter, but the pre-COVID momentum that was lost may bring a sense of development impetus and may be regained with this announcement.
In Oliver there are several projects that could be re-instituted -- the Edmonton Motors twin towers, the Emerald project, the Jasper House project... to name but a few (also the Jameson).
Edmonton just might get its groove back.

Maybe. It's good news for the industry, housing and supply, but rents are not there, central demand is lagging and opportunity cost of other markets perhaps too tempting.

Cap rates add in a whole other ballgame for investors in the YEG market... which, are, very, weak.

Here's hoping I am 1000% wrong, but market fundamentals are still incredibly challenging, GST or not.

 

[Barnaby]

Oliver is doing the heavy lifting of making downtown adjacent living actually attractive in this city. Keep in mind we're fighting a little bit of a parking lot problem in the core. I don't expect 20 towers to be built right away, but this could easily result in a few that would otherwise not be built.

If I say "Downtown", many people have a negative knee jerk reaction. Whenever I say "Oliver" or "104th" street, I don't see these same negative associations. This tower, and a few other key projects are placed on this desirable street.

I think anything right next to the arena on 104th will do very well.

 

[dunno]

Oliver is doing the heavy lifting of making downtown adjacent living actually attractive in this city. Keep in mind we're fighting a little bit of a parking lot problem in the core. I don't expect 20 towers to be built right away, but this could easily result in a few that would otherwise not be built.

If I say "Downtown", many people have a negative knee jerk reaction. Whenever I say "Oliver" or "104th" street, I don't see these same negative associations. This tower, and a few other key projects are placed on this desirable street.

I think anything right next to the arena on 104th will do very well.

Oliver has a dramatically better perception than Downtown proper. Probably because once you get west of Railtown, a lot of the colourful social conditions that are present in Downtown, the North Edge, and Boyle-McCauley dissipate pretty quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if this new federal plan results in not only more Downtown developments, but even more Oliver developments.

 

[David A]

Oliver is doing the heavy lifting of making downtown adjacent living actually attractive in this city. Keep in mind we're fighting a little bit of a parking lot problem in the core. I don't expect 20 towers to be built right away, but this could easily result in a few that would otherwise not be built.

If I say "Downtown", many people have a negative knee jerk reaction. Whenever I say "Oliver" or "104th" street, I don't see these same negative associations. This tower, and a few other key projects are placed on this desirable street.

I think anything right next to the arena on 104th will do very well.

Oliver has been a thriving residential area, adjacent to or part of downtown, depending on who's definitions you go by. I don't think this is something recent or new.

 

[bodsbods9090]

I mean, looking at Wexford's website, there doesn't seem to be a lot in the proposal stage. So the two projects in Edmonton MAY be on their radar. They also have The Barron on Whyte Ave to build too.

Guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Munanyo]

I would absolutely love for this project to get built, but unless we get something a bit more concrete to suggest this might seriously be in the works we just have to wait and see.

Agree that Oliver has been doing the heavy lifting in injecting some life in and around the core. Maybe this federal announcement will accelerate that trend, which is awesome because Oliver has organically and quietly been coming along and I'm excited to see where it might be in another 5 years.

 

[Clearshades]

Get the WH district filled in now!

 

[Guy 1]

Edmonton does have the added advantage of actually being able to get MLI select points on affordability - something that most other big city markets just can't do.

 

[CaptainBL]

This GST announcement could well spur half a dozen rental apartments downtown into "active" status. Those that I would look to see come to life would be Westrich project at 103 Ave./104th Street (Kitty-corner from the Wexford project mentioned here), the Shift (twin towers at 102 Ave./106th Street), the second towers for Falcon (104th Street/100 Ave.) and the Parks (Jasper Ave. and 108th Street), the second 36-storey tower by Qualico and the Milner Bldg. Conversion. On the periphery of possibilities a tower from Katz on 104th Street north of 103rd Avenue, a potential start on Ice District Phase II, some movement on both the Edmontonian (101 Street north of the Qualico development) and the much maligned property on the former site of the Tegler Building, and the property that includes the storage building on 103 Ave. and 104th Street.
I don't for a minute believe that all of these projects will be announced in the same calendar quarter, but the pre-COVID momentum that was lost may bring a sense of development impetus and may be regained with this announcement.
In Oliver there are several projects that could be re-instituted -- the Edmonton Motors twin towers, the Emerald project, the Jasper House project... to name but a few (also the Jameson).
Edmonton just might get its groove back.

1. The GST rebate on average will amount to about an additional $3M savings on a project that will cost $100M. While that is definitely an extra $3M in the developers pocket, it is not nearly material enough to spur even half the projects you mentioned. Source: commentary from about half a dozen Edmonton developers I spoke with that have some of the projects you listed on the go

2. The challenge especially in downtown Edmonton is multifaceted with A. being rental rates - Rental rates in downtown Edmonton are not growing fast enough or high enough like in other cities that the proformas of these towers make sense to go ahead; B. all these rental towers only move forward with CMHC MLI Select financing and right now getting new towers financed with CMHC is more difficult than ever before and the CMHC has highlighted Alberta and specifically Edmonton and Calgary as higher risk which results in things like cutting down proforma rents

3. The continued struggle with downtown and the lack of demand for living downtown because A. social disorder and B. there is virtually 0 job growth downtown amongst our 24% vacancy rate that would drive demand for people to move downtown because that's where their jobs are located.

4. While the GST cut will increase the rebate to developers, the subtrades will still be charging GST to the developers. Timing of the developers rebate while still paying GST to subtrades will be an issue so this also impacts how this rebate will work. Again, its not as simple as you have made it out to be.

In summary, blindly claiming "because x then y" and throwing around a bunch of project names that have been on the board for the last decade is misleading. If any of these projects move forward, it isnt because the GST cut is the magic bullet.

 

[bodsbods9090]

1. The GST rebate on average will amount to about an additional $3M savings on a project that will cost $100M. While that is definitely an extra $3M in the developers pocket, it is not nearly material enough to spur even half the projects you mentioned. Source: commentary from about half a dozen Edmonton developers I spoke with that have some of the projects you listed on the go

2. The challenge especially in downtown Edmonton is multifaceted with A. being rental rates - Rental rates in downtown Edmonton are not growing fast enough or high enough like in other cities that the proformas of these towers make sense to go ahead; B. all these rental towers only move forward with CMHC MLI Select financing and right now getting new towers financed with CMHC is more difficult than ever before and the CMHC has highlighted Alberta and specifically Edmonton and Calgary as higher risk which results in things like cutting down proforma rents

3. The continued struggle with downtown and the lack of demand for living downtown because A. social disorder and B. there is virtually 0 job growth downtown amongst our 24% vacancy rate that would drive demand for people to move downtown because that's where their jobs are located.

4. While the GST cut will increase the rebate to developers, the subtrades will still be charging GST to the developers. Timing of the developers rebate while still paying GST to subtrades will be an issue so this also impacts how this rebate will work. Again, its not as simple as you have made it out to be.

In summary, blindly claiming "because x then y" and throwing around a bunch of project names that have been on the board for the last decade is misleading. If any of these projects move forward, it because the GST cut is the magic bullet.

To be fair, one of the guys who works with Wexford came out and declared on Twitter saying this was a big win for developers.

Not defending Ted but maybe his blind enthusiasm warrants SOME consideration as it may spurn some development news.

I'm not connected with anything development-wise in Edmonton so maybe I have some blind enthusiasm too but what do I know?

 

[David A]

I hope the GST change sparks projects like this to move ahead, but I realize that companies especially from elsewhere have various other projects happening or under consideration too.

I think developing this site is particularly good as it would help extend the Ice District area west and little is lost by replacing the non descript two storey building here.

It is interesting to note that a several of the projects happening are by local companies. I do think they have the advantage of being both more focused on and understanding the local market.