Rogers Place | ?m | ?s | Katz Group | HOK

What do you think of this project?

  • Total voters
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Anyone read the Power Play book? Free at the library or on the Libby app.

Left me with a good mix of feelings. Probably the intention. It’s a complex question of what ifs and how things could have been done differently.

Hard to say it’s backfired. Also hard to say taxpayers didn’t get fleeced. It’s likely a net win for the city. And also a significantly bigger net profit for katz.
 
thommyjo said:
Anyone read the Power Play book? Free at the library or on the Libby app.

Left me with a good mix of feelings. Probably the intention. It’s a complex question of what ifs and how things could have been done differently.

Hard to say it’s backfired. Also hard to say taxpayers didn’t get fleeced. It’s likely a net win for the city. And also a significantly bigger net profit for katz.
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I actually bought that book and I highly recommend it for anyone who hasn't read it!
 
Mosaic Stadium in Regina cost like $350m and is used only 15-20 days of the year. A hockey arena like Rogers Place is different and use a whole lot more.

I haven't read the hockey book, but to me the math is pretty clear. The City spent x dollars and got x dollars back in taxes. That's what allowed us to have a new arena downtown, Katz build out ICE District, and a whole lot of other amenities Downtown like new parks, community arena and so on. There was no other way that was politically possible.
 
thommyjo said:
Anyone read the Power Play book? Free at the library or on the Libby app.

Left me with a good mix of feelings. Probably the intention. It’s a complex question of what ifs and how things could have been done differently.

Hard to say it’s backfired. Also hard to say taxpayers didn’t get fleeced. It’s likely a net win for the city. And also a significantly bigger net profit for katz.
Click to expand...
Haven't read it, so maybe I'm about to spew a ton of nonsense, but ICE District is a great example to be used in the discussion of at what point does de-risking private sector projects via gov't subsidy make sense when considering the resulting externalities.

The City spent future increases in property tax gains to allow a private corp the confidence to redevelop a substantial amount of brownfield land in the core, and financially it's being indicated this is a net positive ROI to taxpayers even before considering other overarching benefits. For a different case analysis of another private corp subsidy: the City building an interchange on 23rd ave to reduce accidents after it was consistently one of the most dangerous intersections in the city, but way overbuilt the design until the cost ballooned to $253m, largely so drivers could have easier access to SEC (I bet the 102 st flyover probably added $40m to the project cost alone).

Ironically, in retrospect I actually think the worst aspects of the arena deal were not even the direct financial subsidy. It was the clause(s) that rendered Rexall useless for virtually any purposes that it was designed for, and then the lack of any real planning for what the City would end up doing with Rexall, despite knowing it'd cost tens of millions to demo. That's the real embarrassing legacy component of all of this and where taxpayers got fleeced.
 
Very sad -- I first ran across Alex' work when Edmonton lawyer Larry Cunningham (then with the firm Lefsrud, Cunningham, Patrick, and Roddick) brought two of Alex' paintings into the office back in 1972 when I was commissioned to design a new office building for the firm on 112th Street north of 102nd Avenue. He wanted advice on how to portray the paintings in his new office. I was fascinated with the intricacy of the work. Later in life (2011-ish as I recall) I asked Alex to work on a competition concept that a consulting group that I had formed (Cedar Waxwing Group) was tasked (competition) with design for a conveyance system that would run from Jasper Avenue down 104th Street and into the River Valley terminating at that broad stretch of vacant land south of 97th Avenue and North and West of River Valley Road -- Architect Douglas Cardinal was part of our Group and, having grown up with Alex, they were lifelong friends and Doug introduced me to Alex. Through the development of that proposal Alex and I had several long conversations -- without exaggeration they would last for 3 or 4 hours at a time. I came to know him well. Doug designed Alex' studio/gallery in Cold Lake, Alex' home. Alex was very proud of his Dene heritage and he was very vocal about Philosophical teachings from First Nations ideology and loved to share.
 
^Very cool story. I was only associated with the Ford Hall artwork because the community league was on the selection committee. At the opening of Rogers Place, Janvier wanted to talk more about the Oilers than his work but he was very proud of it.
 
^
In many ways we’ve come a long way in the last 10 years, most of them for the better.
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Am I the only one who finds it interesting that there was a downtown Edmonton office tower that was called "Scotia Place" for several decades before it was recently renamed to "Rice Howard Place"? The tower was renamed due to Scotiabank relocating to ICE District, which is highlighted by an NHL arena called "Rogers Place".
 
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