Prairie Sky Gondola | 76.2m | ?s | Prairie Sky | DIALOG

What do you think of this project?

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archited said:
^^^^ Actually, @Daveography I think there is a very valid case to be made...
1. On the eastern extreme (all industrial or mercantile in terms of adjacent uses) it would tie-in directly to Wye Road (Sherwood Park's equivalent of Jasper Avenue). A "clover loop" at about the equivalent of 9th/10th Street would take westbound traffic over the Sherwood Park Freeway and connect the loop to 76th Street. Similarly an eastbound lane off of 76th could cross over the exit ramp of the SP Freeway thereby completing the extension into Sherwood Park -- in both instances the land is sitting there idle in terms of use.
2. Heading west the industrial mercantile uses continue all of the way to 50th street. It would be an easy matter to widen this section of 76th street to 4 lanes (total -- two in each direction), put in a sidewalk on one side of the street and a protected 2-way bike lane on the other -- again, the land is sitting idle to achieve this. With a little artful landscaping a palette of native plants, shrubs and occasional vertical planters could make the visual aspect far, far more pleasant than it currently is.
3. A multi-functional bridge could span the tracks at 67th street, allowing the same 4-lane plus sidewalk plus bike lanes to carry on westward through industrial-then-commercial zones all the way to Argyll Road (upgraded to a traffic-light-controlled intersection).
4. From Argyll to 75th Street -- more Industrial/Commercial -- we create the same design elements described to this point, and, I might add, the effort is very inexpensive compared to other alternatives and we make the 75th Street/76th Avenue another light-controlled intersection.
5. West of 75th Street, 76th Avenue is already a four-lane thoroughfare all the way to the CP lands that, incidentally, are in a comparable state of dis-use. Along the route we simply eliminate curb parking altogether and change all intersections to cobble/stone paving alternatives so that traffic is naturally moderated from a speed perspective (traffic at 40 kph gets you there almost as fast as traffic at 50 kph). Pedestrian sidewalk on the north side of the Avenue; bicycle lanes on the south. Landscape-wise and in conjunction with a widened boulevard on both sides of the avenue we create a treed allée with benches along the route and information/technology modules interspersed here and there. We also create City-maintained landscape buffers that improve the aspect of front-yards for residences.
6. At 83rd street we put in place another LRT stop and the third traffic-light-intersection.
7. The same design sensibility carries on all the way to the CP lands (so far only exceptional neighborhood improvements and no auto-lane increases). 99th Street becomes the fourth light-controlled intersection along the entire route (incidentally with time-preferences at each favoring 76th Avenue in residential zones).
8. At the CP lands the City of Edmonton annexes the required land for the route extension of 76th Avenue and in the same instance changes the zoning north of the newly formed 76th Avenue as an historical extension of Old Strathcona, rebuilding the historical roundhouse as a new location for the ERRS streetcar barn (plus transit museum) and making a physical allowance for extending the Radial Railway to 76th Avenue where a period-style station would be developed (this would be the second station after a new location on the east side of the new Beljan development). The CP Land on the south side of 76th Avenue could then be encouraged to become a hub for technology, a physical extension of the Edmonton-based Universities and Post-Secondary schools, and a connector point for EIA and points south that include Red Deer, Calgary, and Lethbridge, whether hyperloop or some other system. The Campuses could be a joint effort between U of A, NAIT, MacEwan, and Athabasca U -- and this could also be the ideal location for a Design School -- Architecture, Landscape Architecture, Urban Planning, Interior Design, Industrial Design, Graphic Design and Web Design -- all working in unison, creating the physical equivalent of MIT in Massachusetts. 76th Avenue could be a major east-west connector. The fifth light-controlled intersection would occur at Gateway Boulevard; the sixth at the Calgary Trail. Imagine how significant this area would become to area residences, which along 76th Avenue might have to be up-zoned to increase density. I also see the ERR tracks with a pedestrian way and bike lanes continuing south to the old CPR right-of-way north of 68th Avenue and then eastward to a rebuilding of the one-time rail through Mill Creek ending up at the Muttart Conservatory and the LRT station there -- what a scenic route this would be!
9. So when 76th Avenue criss-crosses University Avenue, I envision the development of an elongated controlled intersection where the traffic is then refocused north-westward along University Avenue where densified development is already occurring. When we get to the river I see a new bridge crossing the North Saskatchewan that on the west bank bends southward to the Valley Zoo eventually meeting the traffic circle at Buena Vista Road. 76th Avenue/University Avenue would then become a boon to future zoo development.
10. Other advantages:
-- with somewhat lessened traffic along Whyte Avenue because of the 76th Avenue alternative east-west route, I see the ability to build an ERR route connecting Bonnie Doon to the U of A, connecting LRT station to LRT station, along an historic section of the City that deserves to be thought of in those terms.
-- a City-mandated emphasis to get CP off its A** to either sell the land it has in South Edmonton/Old Strathcona or develop it with specific incentives in place to realize a benefit to the City.
-- a new bridge that connects South Edmonton with West Edmonton.
-- the 109th Street retail/commercial precinct extended southward to at least connect to 76th Avenue.
-- the potential for a monorail connection between the U of A along University Avenue that would tie into a new development on CP land that would also then tie together LRT (U of A) to ERR (76th Ave). Now we're talking about a transit system that is cross-City functional and that would actually be fun to experience.
-- a cross-City southside bike route.
If there is a better idea I would like someone to delineate it.
Click to expand...
That was a pleasure to read from start to finish, and I am now absolutely convinced that this is the best way forward for 76th Ave and the CP yard property. Thank you for taking the time to write up such a well thought out post!
 
Let's help the imagination along a little bit here vis-a-vis 76th Avenue as a thoroughfare
1. Granite pathways (alternating colors based on rock composition). I have done the "small-scale" experiment with granite (and some iron filings stirred into the mix) placed in a square box and stuck in the bottom shelf of my freezer with two poles of a lab battery (high voltage -- very low amperage) connected to opposite ends of the box. I placed ice shavings on the surface of the granite and left it overnight -- by morning, the ice was gone. Small scale experiment worked. Now I want to convince one of my Edmonton contacts to try it on a larger outdoor scale -- say a 2 metre by 2 metre surface. If that works then VOILA we will have a new snow removal medium for walkways, driveways, street surfaces, etc. The first images below show how a granite walkway placed in an allee of trees with low-level buffer plantings (bordering both private property on one side and auto street traffic on the other side make for a great separation between private property and an adjacent roadway. Single species groupings of trees (varying from block to block) could include tamarack (beautiful golden fall colors), mountain ash (beautiful orange/red berries), aspen-poplar (common Alberta deciduous tree) and Red Maple (deep red fall colors). We should pick deciduous trees for the north side walkway so that when the leaves fall the warming sun can shine through. All images from my shared pinterest account.
Sidwalk allee #1.png Sidewalk Allee #2.png Sidewalk allee #3.png
2. Granite Bike Lanes (again, alternating granite colors with iconic images done in contrasting natural colors). On this side of the street (south side) I would select evergreen trees that would help with wind amelioration -- Colorado spruce, Lodgepole Pine, Scots Pine and White Spruce. These trees would be pruned up from the base about 6-feet.
Bike Allee #1.png Bike Allee #2.png Bike Allee #3.png Bike Allee #4.png
3.The auto traffic portion of the Avenue would also be granite based with special detailing (3-d painted image that makes the crosswalk stand out in bolder fashion, a contrasting (stone) center median to keep autos directionaly in their own lane
Auto Route #1.png Auto Lane #2.png
4. Some concepts taken from Douglas Cardinal's website (with permission) as a hint in imagining what a Design School could look like on the CP land south of a connected 76th Avenue.
Architecture School #1.png Architecture #2.png Architecture #3.png Architecture #4.png Architecture #5.png
5. And North of 76th Avenue on CP land we could recreate the Standard Alberta Rail Station as a location for the ERR station at 76th Avenue and we could rebuild the roundhouse as a functioning barn for ERRS as well as a railroad/streetcar museum.
ERRS station.png
 
...continuing the previous post...
5. cont'd. Streetcar Station
ERRS Station #2.png
6. And some rebuilds of demolished Edmonton landmarks for the Strathcona scene on the North portion of the CP lands...
Buildings #1.png Building #2.png Building #3.png Building #4.png Building #5.png Building #6.png Building #7.png Building #8.png Building #9.png
7. And some ultra modern bridge design concepts for over the North Saskatchewan River tying University Avenue to the Valley Zoo...
Bridge #1.png Bridge #2.png Bridge #3.png
 
IanO said:
Keep in mind that this could also remove the need for a new LRT bridge and 'central connector' from 107st/102ave, south-?across to the UofA/Garneau and then east to Whyte.

Add in the High Level Line with an improved streetcar service and you have both for maybe 300mil versus 1.5-2.1 billion or so.

Both low overall impact and both with significant cool factors.

*full disclosure - I am a (very small) shareholder of PSG.
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I concur.

My move from skeptic to supporter happened the moment that I saw the capacity and price of a gondola vs an lrt extension. The gondola represents a huge piece of the puzzle, particularly when you consider that Sherwood Park is likely looking at very rapid connections between its transit hub and the Bonnie Doon lrt stop as is...
 
@Daveography may we please have a "76th Avenue" thread -- I would like to ad some design parameters to impel a general discussion and put the whole consideration up for debate in the Mayoral race this year -- at a minimum increasing readership in the Skyrise Cities Site.
 
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This one is absolutely a yes for me... as the mural says, take a risk, it’s the most Edmonton thing you can do. How many millions - if not billions - have we spent on lrt bridges and infrastructure to cross the river based on ridership projections stretching out half a century? The city invests taxpayer dollars hand over fist and assumes all of the operating as well as capital risk from day one. This project has as much or more potential to pay off in terms of local ridership and tourist potential than most others with no initial capital investment. This is a venture not asking for a cent and looking for nothing but the opportunity to add another piece to our collective urban fabric. If the city can’t support this we might as well all pull up shop and look elsewhere.
 
archited said:
@Daveography may we please have a "76th Avenue" thread -- I would like to ad some design parameters to impel a general discussion and put the whole consideration up for debate in the Mayoral race this year -- at a minimum increasing readership in the Skyrise Cities Site.
Click to expand...
Soon. I haven't had time to give your posts on the subject a proper read yet, but I'll reorganize posts when I do.
 
Letter to Mayor and Council re today's newspaper "guest editorial":

Further to today’s opinion piece in the Edmonton Journal from Raquel Feroe and Eric Gormley, I hope Council does provide its blessing for the Prairie Sky Gondola. From my perspective, Rocky and Eric are like Chicken Little complaining about the sky falling. This piece is like children throwing everything on their plate at the wall to see what sticks.

Even their description of the gondola is misleading – roads and bridges and paths and dog parks cut through our river valley. According to the preliminary technical drawings, there are only two towers on the south side of the river (2.3 and 2.4) and only one on the north side (2.5) that are located in currently undeveloped spaces between the End of Steel Park Station and the Plant Station. The other 10 towers are all located in already developed land in Strathcona, Rossdale and downtown.

The actual footprint of this cut through the river valley is probably smaller than the lot my home sits on in Riverdale. It’s probably smaller than the lot Rocky and Eric’s house sits on in Riverdale. Given those towers are intended to support an estimated 3 million trips from 637,000 unique riders in the first year of operation, that seems pretty environmentally friendly to me when you look past the rhetoric at the actual details.

As for the addition of a gondola “only burning more coal”, the province of Alberta is already set to retire the last of its coal fired plants by 2023 – well before the gondolas would even be commissioned.

As for the young people from high-rises and walk-ups cycling, walking and jogging, the gondola will not preclude any of that. What it will do is provide similar river valley access to seniors and mothers and others who are mobility challenged and currently much less able to enjoy our river valley.

As for planting two million trees, I haven’t seen anything in Prairie Sky Gondola’s plans that would preclude the city’s ability to start planting those trees tomorrow and to continue planting them to our heart’s content.

As for those 12,000 signs saying “Defend Alberta Parks” they were directed at the potential deregistering of provincial parklands and the potential of opening them to thermal coal mining for export. They certainly weren’t addressed at a municipal transportation option that is the equivalent of taking more than 2,000 vehicles off the road and out of the river valley.

By all means we need to demonstrate good long-term stewardship and recognize that what’s good for the river valley is good for Edmonton. That should include the pursuit of one of the least disruptive and most reliable transportations systems possible when it comes to moving from one side of our river valley to the other.
 
The cities that have gondola's are usually places built on or, or in proximity to mountains. They are appropriate for those environments and as was noted, nothing else much really works on a steep hill. While I appreciate the enthusiasm of advocates of the gondola, I feel it is a bit forced in our environment.

I also do understand that people would like a more direct link between downtown and Old Strathcona as I often travel between then. You currently have a choice between a bus route that is a bit roundabout with a number of stops or taking the LRT to the University and then transferring to a bus and hoping you don't miss a connection (happened many times to me). Even under good circumstances it takes about 40 minutes to make the trip by transit and bus, whereas by car it is 10 to 15 minutes. I have on occasion taken the only direct route - a nice walk through the river valley and would recommend it in good weather.

I think perhaps a better idea than the gondola, would be exploring better transit connections. Either non stop buses or a combination of the streetcar and LRT, or perhaps a combination of these as the streetcar does not currently run year round. It would be far less costly and wouldn't require any additional concrete or structures in our river valley.
 
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