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What do you think of this project?

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EdmTrekker said:
Another city on the move is London. The consolidation of GO, VIA and their LRT and main bus station into a Central Station is already acting as a catalyst for development.
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Gee, a central station, what a concept! Sure beats a forlorn VIA station on the Yellowhead Trail. I don't know what this city was thinking when that was done. Perhaps those in charge at the time secretly hate tourists and want to make it as difficult as possible for them to get around here, as possible. It has also resulted in some very negative travel writes up about our city.
 
Hamilton - it makes me wonder how many developers from the GTA will delay or sell projects out west when this kinda stuff is happening in their own backyard.
EdmTrekker said:
What is happening in Hamilton? On the diagrams not much is indicated as under construction. https://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?cityID=307
And in Kelowna also not much showing https://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?cityID=48
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51407455344_c42d33ac37_k.jpg

ScreamingViking on SSP
 
I was waiting for that image and hope most comes to fruition but the reality is that our market, its absorption rates and the reality of it all is much different than other marketplaces.

We are betting on a multiple horses and hope that one or two hit.
 
IanO said:
Similar for BC developers who are pretty busy west of us as well.

Kelowna
50947725847_8726cfaa72_h.jpg

Ericmacm on SSP
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Wow!! It's so cool to see more of the these "future skyline" renderings for other Canadian cities. I think within the next decade Kelowna, Hamilton, London and Windsor have the chance to join larger cities like Winnipeg in terms of urban development & growth, maybe even population!

It'd be interesting to see if something similar would happen to Albertan cities like Red Deer and Lethbridge if an HSR is built, possibly becoming affordable lifestyle-centers outside E & C with super fast access to either at the same time.
 
IanO said:
I was waiting for that image and hope most comes to fruition but the reality is that our market, its absorption rates and the reality of it all is much different than other marketplaces.

We are betting on a multiple horses and hope that one or two hit.
Click to expand...
I have worked as an architect on projects in Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, and broadly SoCal, the San Francisco Bay area, greater Phoenix and the Las Vegas basin. Your assumptions about development are so naive and elementary. Of course, not all Edmonton projects will "arrive" -- neither will they for Toronto, Hamilton, Windsor, Vancouver, nor Kelowna -- quite true for any market place on earth. So what is your point! We have just come from a "no-go" zone vis-a-vis COVID where financing for hospitality, senior-care, retail, and industrial projects has vaporized, no matter the location. Los Angeles, by itself, is a stronger development market than all of those in Canada put together -- a metro population pushing 18 million + souls -- and projects here have been postponed or cancelled altogether in record numbers. Edmonton, locally, and Alberta generally will come out of the post-COVID era just fine and the projects listed on Skyrise Cities will be dwarfed by new projects for the Alberta Market. For someone who has built a career on prognosticating "the City scene", your crystal ball is surely clouded. And don't tell me that you know better what is going on in the "other" Canadian market places. One of our team members -- Douglas Cardinal -- now based in Ottawa (where he relocated to manage the Canadian History Museum) has had a number of Toronto projects postponed or cancelled altogether.

In sum, these kind of naive comments that are baseless and misguided are typically not even worth commenting on -- except for the fact that they can lure others on the site into your self-made world of doom and gloom. I don't know why you are so anti-Edmonton -- but I have my suspicions -- I don't imagine that many here are truly interested in your ramblings about how great things are in Toronto or Kelowna or Vancouver -- especially as compared to Edmonton.
 
Did you just say that L.A. is a stronger market than Toronto? Let alone adding in Vancouver? And you say that my assumptions are 'naive and elementary'?

L.A. is a beast of a city and on dollar value alone is nuts, but Toronto's last 10-15 years has outpaced any city in North America and then some when it comes to multi-family high-rise... with NYC and S.F. following its shadow.

Of course there will be winners and losers when it comes to projects (the same for any city) with some progressing and others faltering, being postponed or cancelled altogether.

I'm being hard on Edmonton because it continues to falter, be a laggard and defies logic and that becomes even more apparent when you see it from a distance as I am sure you must recognize. There have been some great strides by some and certainly are multiple bright spots, but it is in for a tough go and the market is simply not there to support much of it from an investor or capital side of it all. Sure there are buyers, but who and at what price is telling.
 
^^^^ Yes I did -- but to be clear -- I was talking about Greater Los Angeles (hence the reference to over 18 million people). I have attached for your data mine several articles by responsible news sources. If you add up the GDP for all Canadian Cities in the entire country and compare them to the GDP of Greater Los Angeles you will find that they are little better than half the GDP of Los Angeles. Further, California is the fastest growing Economy in the world and, in size, if it were its own country it would rank fifth overall behind the U.S., China, Japan, and Germany (Canada ranks 10th). Also, when comparing per capita GDP, Alberta is number one in Canada -- 60% higher than Ontario and 64% higher than British Columbia. Alberta is also positioned to be the fastest recovery Province in Canada post COVID and Edmonton, not Calgary, will centre that recovery. Now, we can all weep and moan about how poorly Edmonton is doing mired in the COVID 1 1/2 years, but it is a pointless exercise vis-a-vis economic projections (and the fact that all other cities have gone through the same malaise). Alberta's Economy is shifting to include raw resource development to tertiary products, expansion of oil and gas (yes, I said so), development of a hydrogen economy and a more substantial role in manufacturing and exporting of finished products. In sum, your Edmonton surmise and your Greater Toronto/lower B.C. overview is entirely misguided -- the facts are far different than your "personal viewpoint". I believe there is an entirely different reason for your "hard on Edmonton" attitude. You should be much more careful when it comes to spewing disinformation.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-14/california-defies-doom-with-no-1-u-s-economy
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gdp-by-state
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263574/gross-domestic-product-gdp-in-canada/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Los_Angeles
http://apisbd.com/the-top-7-richest-provinces-in-canada/
 
GDP growth does not directly nor linearly translate into tower development; I am well aware of California's juggernaut status and various drivers of growth, expansion and lifestyle/destination.

Edmonton is repositioning well of late and here's hoping H2 is the next big thing (ALONG WITH O&G...er ENERGY DEVELOPMENT, but its urban real estate market will not reflect that. If you look at the last 25 years of growth, development and what we have after two consecutive cycles of unprecedented growth, highest or near highest GDP growth and /capita, highest or near highest HHI and near Chinese levels of population growth is a sprawling city with mediocre amounts of infill that lag COE expectations, predictions and need. Downtown/Central Edmonton has seen stagnation (some might say erosion) of its employment base (musical chairs in many cases) and an evisceration of its retail/destination retail scene that is beyond embarrassing. On the % change side of things with regards to residential growth it is positive and a bright spot, but nominally underperforming and by a considerable margin. Given those years, those fundamentals and that influx we should have seen double that number of towers go up in the core and those years ain't coming back.

Don't get me wrong, there are many positives and a variety of new additions to the area that will help but we are 10-15 years behind where we should be given what was before us.
 
Sometimes the grass seems greener elsewhere,. When I visited some other cities in Canada there were definitely some huge gaps in retail spaces due to COVID. You might not necessarily easily notice them as a visitor, because you don't have the memory of those spaces being occupied, whereas you would notice the same here. As has been said, every place has been hit by COVID.

I think that actually some of the harder hit places might bounce back a lot more although we are not quite there yet, so I can understand that people with limited imagination and/or an abundance of pessimism may not see that yet.

Also, not everyone wants to be in the so called centre of the Universe in Canada and perhaps as important, or more, an increasing number of people can not afford to. The old saying about it is being busy that no one goes there anymore, has a bit of truth behind the wit. Cycles go up and down everywhere and one phase is where a place can become a victim of its success after a long run of growth.
 
As an immigrant myself, I do understand both sides. Given international situation, people will be coming to Canada for many years to come. And some will trickle to Edmonton because of how affordable it is compared to other Canadian cities. But there is a work that needs to be done. It lacks ambition and direction. There is no "social contract". If we say we are lowest tax jurisdiction in N America, that message needs to be consistent..now it seems very unstable depending on next election outcome. To attract businesses takes time. There is a sign on A Henday "first ... Interconnected vehicles", what happened to that? Was a good start. If we to develop hydrogen it needs to be concentrated efforts in promoting the industry. All mayoral candidates shine absolute emptyness of ideas.. So in a sense Ian is right, we lack human capital and are not bold enough. Look form the side: gondola project - neh can't do it, thermo sidewalks, neh not feasible although we are 6 months under the snow etc anyway, being a conservative is an identity on itself but then understand yourself as such and be consistent. But then vote NDP in Edmonton.. So not conservative. But not progressive either. So I came to conclusion that Edmonton doesn't understand what kind of the city it is. And therefore has no face. With all the respect:)
 
It's called democracy. Federal and provincial politics are two different things, and Edmonton is not that conservative. And societies are dynamic.
Just 10 year ago, 30% of roads in the city were in very poor condition, worst in the country. Now it's down to 5% I believe. Still there is a long way to go.
Edmonton lacks investment in infrastructure. It's a rough looking city. It has improved dramatically since 2010 when I moved here.
Edmonton has its own identity and history, you just need to make an effort to see it.
 
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