IanO
Superstar
Transit Priority Measures | City of Edmonton
Planning and design to implement new transit priority measures are underway for 7 key corridors in Edmonton.
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ETS Bus and General Transit Improvements
- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
Avenuer
Senior Member
You already cannot park on most of that stretch of 101 Street so I think the bus lanes won't have a massive impact - the benefits to OTP for bus routes such as the 9 will be much greater and worth the investment.
IanO
Superstar
^maybe, but only having one lane northbound for the entire business day is disconcerting.
That said, I am generally supportive of a more efficient transit system as we must continue to shift modal shares and make it a more attractive option to far more people.
That said, I am generally supportive of a more efficient transit system as we must continue to shift modal shares and make it a more attractive option to far more people.
IanO
Superstar
Heard one of the Councillors last night share that our electric bus fleet continues to sit idle and are largely unusable. While it was mostly federal $, it's still 'our money' and one would think that there has to be a work around to get them operational again.
EdwardEdm
Active Member
It's not great, but they have about 25 operable buses with 15-20 being out during peak periods.
Not that that is acceptable, but it's also not as bad as some people seem to think.
Not that that is acceptable, but it's also not as bad as some people seem to think.
trevorhayden
Active Member
Shit happens. Sucks but move on.
thommyjo
Senior Member
We can’t be too quick to “move on”. It was a massive failure in terms of QA, procurement, risk assessment, etc.
We are badly short buses and this has made the problem way worse. The staff behind this decision should have been relieved imo.
Lessons have hopefully been learned?
Shit happens, but a lot more happens when people make dumb decisions. This wasn’t a “whoops”, it was a huge mismanagement of scarce funds for critical capacity increases to our fleet. (Not to mention all the extra staff training and equipment connected to these that had to be retrofitted into the garage for R&M).
degrandprix
Active Member
I wonder why they didn't go with the New Flyer EVs? Maybe these ones were cheaper, but surely the Flyer would have required less staff training and new equipment since they would share a lot of parts with the diesel models.
Did anything ever come from the legal action the city was taking against Proterra?
Did anything ever come from the legal action the city was taking against Proterra?
EdwardEdm
Active Member
Why?
They certainly did their due diligence. They tested 5 buses, 3 during winter from 2 vendors. They had a feasibility study done that provide numbers that were in favour of electric buses, and then they used a competitive procurement process and they selected the best response.
Short of a whistleblower coming out and saying that the internal selection process was rigged or something.
Additionally, it's not like other vendors buses from the same era have done well. The TTC has parked their fleets of Proterra, BYD, and New Flyer electric buses from the same timeframe.
Shit happens.
thommyjo
Senior Member
did they?
“Of particular note, Proterra was not one of the companies whose buses were tested in 2015-16. Despite that, and despite the fact they were one of the newest players in the market, they won the city’s competitive bid process.”
5 weeks of testing during a very warm winter. That’s due diligence? I’d think tens of thousands of kms over multiple winters would be worthwhile being making a significant order of this size on brand new tech.
Full city report: https://pub-edmonton.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=21881
To me, it seems like a huge expense and risk with very limited testing. When considering a new technology, that we know is impacted by our climate, this seems insufficient.
Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t believe I’ve seen anything about another city with our climate having used these buses reliably either. So that feels like a flag too.
northlands
Senior Member
It's also notable that the COVID-related supply chain issues and resulting cost inflation against fixed price contracts are what has been publicly ascribed to Proterra's bankruptcy (albeit, I suspect COVID was the straw the broke the camel's back). There are limits to the extent of due diligence you can reasonably do and forecasting financial solvency through a global pandemic is difficult to evaluate during a procurement process. Even with the assumption that a relatively young startup does carry a significantly higher degree of risk than an established player, it's still only one component of a long list of considerations within a procurement matrix.
In a different world where COVID doesn't happen literally a year after the City proceeds with the purchase, and possibly Proterra is still around, this probably ends up not being a major story. If the City had been able to work more directly with Proterra for a number of years before the inevitable chapter 11 filing, they might have been able to work out a lot more of the kinks and build internal R&M/engineering knowledge to keep the fleet going for longer.
That all said, reading how a number of bus drivers refused to even drive them due to their piss poor ergonomics does make you do shake your head.
TAS
Senior Member
Keeping in mind the growth of our city and inflation for context, the last council spent more on active transportation, public transportation and on vehicle infrastructure all at the same time. I believe Knack noted during the election that the previous council spent more on roads than any of the other councils he was on and Janz shared that since 2010, Edmonton has added more roads than all of Montreal has today.
I wonder if shifting modal shares is going to have to mean spending less on new and widening roads at some point as some cities that noticed big changes in modal % decided to do - things like reducing parking, narrowing roads, repurposing roads for other uses etc.?
Will mode shift really occur in any substantive way if driving remains the easiest, fastest, most convenient choice and where parking is plentiful?
Is it financially sustainable to have record spending on all 3 primary modes of transportation - active, public and single vehicular ongoing?
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Gronk!
Senior Member
archited
Senior Member
The more options the better -- there are a couple more that could be included in Edmonton's future -- Skytram Gondolas, River Conveyances and Community Trams (a unique means of experiencing key neighborhoods).
