The Edmonton Method - Snow Removal

[YEG imagineer]

Edmonton’s residential road clearing parking ban to begin Jan. 12 - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

The City of Edmonton's Phase 2 seasonal parking ban will start on Monday, Jan. 12 and may last around two weeks as the snow is dealt with on residential roads.

globalnews.ca

This frustrates me so much. Again they are going to leave a 5 cm hardparked surface after scraping. I have searched to see if any other city does this with no success. Can anyone point me to Edmontons research on why they think this works? 5 cm hard packed means after melt thaw cycles coming up we’ll have ridges made of ice that vehicles and pedestrians will have difficulty going through.

 

[David A]

Edmonton’s residential road clearing parking ban to begin Jan. 12 - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

The City of Edmonton's Phase 2 seasonal parking ban will start on Monday, Jan. 12 and may last around two weeks as the snow is dealt with on residential roads.

globalnews.ca

This frustrates me so much. Again they are going to leave a 5 cm hardparked surface after scraping. I have searched to see if any other city does this with no success. Can anyone point me to Edmontons research on why they think this works? 5 cm hard packed means after melt thaw cycles coming up we’ll have ridges made of ice that vehicles and pedestrians will have difficulty going through.

I wonder if this is a quick and dirty solution to deal with situation of so much snow, but yes it does will result in problems when the snow melts so residents will continue to be unhappy with the city's approach to snow removal.

I was a municipal elected official, I would be very wary of anyone in the administration who is pushing this as a good long term solution.

 

[kcantor]

I wonder if this is a quick and dirty solution to deal with situation of so much snow, but yes it does will result in problems when the snow melts so residents will continue to be unhappy with the city's approach to snow removal.

I was a municipal elected official, I would be very wary of anyone in the administration who is pushing this as a good long term solution.

I don’t know if anyone in administration is pushing this as a good long term solution as opposed to pushing this is the best solution they can deliver with the budgets Council has given them.

 

[David A]

I would argue we actually have the process wrong here, as snowfall is quite unpredictable and variable here from year to year. We can deal with it, but we can't budget it.

So rather than the best solution based on the budget, we deal with the circumstances as they are, come up with the best solution and if necessary revise the budget.

 

[johnnyboy]

Aaron Paquette outlined the costs here last week on Reddit. Blading to bare pavement increases the costs pretty significantly.

He also posted this budget calculator to play around with earlier today on his website:

aaronpaquette.ca/snow-ice

 

[thommyjo]

Aaron Paquette outlined the costs here last week on Reddit. Blading to bare pavement increases the costs pretty significantly.

He also posted this budget calculator to play around with earlier today on his website:

aaronpaquette.ca/snow-ice

The sidewalk number seems beyond exaggerated because Ottawa does sidewalks. They don’t pay anywhere near that. Is that somehow including a large one time expense for new equipment?

 

[IanO]

2 weeks+ post snowfall, this is how our top/coolest urban street with 1000 residents and dozens of businesses are treated.

 

[northlands]

^ Genuinely bewildering. At the very least if they aren't going to clear the windrow, could they at least dispatch a crew to clear a couple spots along it so pedestrians don't have to climb over it?

 

[David A]

The sidewalk number seems beyond exaggerated because Ottawa does sidewalks. They don’t pay anywhere near that. Is that somehow including a large one time expense for new equipment?

Yes, places elsewhere somehow seem to do it. I saw a letter in the Journal recently that mentioned with modification to equipment and using some different equipment, our snow removal could be better and more efficient.

I think someone in city planning here has the myth stuck in their head that our winters are --20 or -30 for 6 months and hasn't realized the freeze/thaw cycle that has become more common here makes faster and more complete snow removal necessary.

 

[IanO]

^ Genuinely bewildering. At the very least if they aren't going to clear the windrow, could they at least dispatch a crew to clear a couple spots along it so pedestrians don't have to climb over it?

It was fully cleared south of Jasper along Shoppers and the Milner where 0 business entrances front...

FFS

 

[CplKlinger]

Like sidewalks downtown for snow clearing…. Do they have a bylaw person walking around and issuing tickets for uncleared sidewalks? Or simply waiting for 311 tickets?

The current budget is only enough for the city to hire five temporary bylaw officers (and a clerk) every winter to enforce parking bans. During the funding spike in 2022 or thereabouts, that went up to 15 officers (and two clerks) who also enforced the spring parking bans. Crucially, when there was no active winter parking ban, they conducted proactive sidewalk enforcement.

The current five (who will lose their jobs come spring time, as is tradition) probably do proactive sidewalk enforcement when there's no bans, but they have a heck of a lot of ground to cover.

Here's their jurisdiction scan, for anyone curious. It includes Stockholm, Sweden. Take note of the differences in population, city area, population density, and average precipitation between Edmonton and Stockholm.

 

[thommyjo]

The current budget is only enough for the city to hire five temporary bylaw officers (and a clerk) every winter to enforce parking bans. During the funding spike in 2022 or thereabouts, that went up to 15 officers (and two clerks) who also enforced the spring parking bans. Crucially, when there was no active winter parking ban, they conducted proactive sidewalk enforcement.

The current five (who will lose their jobs come spring time, as is tradition) probably do proactive sidewalk enforcement when there's no bans, but they have a heck of a lot of ground to cover.

Here's their jurisdiction scan, for anyone curious. It includes Stockholm, Sweden. Take note of the differences in population, city area, population density, and average precipitation between Edmonton and Stockholm.

I have a lot of questions about this report. Ottawa does sidewalks and roads for 82 million, and they get more snow than us.

We spent 60mil and admin claims we’d have to spend 220m MORE to also do sidewalks?

Yet we have less snowfall and arguably our clearing is already way worse than Ottawa just for roads.

Make it make sense.

 

[kcantor]

I have a lot of questions about this report. Ottawa does sidewalks and roads for 82 million, and they get more snow than us.

We spent 60mil and admin claims we’d have to spend 220m MORE to also do sidewalks?

Yet we have less snowfall and arguably our clearing is already way worse than Ottawa just for roads.

Make it make sense.

I can’t comment on sidewalks but Edmonton has approximately 10,000 lane kilometers of roads while Ottawa has approximately 6,000.

 

[CplKlinger]

I have a lot of questions about this report. Ottawa does sidewalks and roads for 82 million, and they get more snow than us.

We spent 60mil and admin claims we’d have to spend 220m MORE to also do sidewalks?

Yet we have less snowfall and arguably our clearing is already way worse than Ottawa just for roads.

Make it make sense.

Dang, I'm jealous ;-;

Can we at least have corn fences?? I hate corn but that sounds fun.

 

[CplKlinger]

I can’t comment on sidewalks but Edmonton has approximately 10,000 lane kilometers of roads while Ottawa has approximately 6,000.

That's my big gripe with the J-scan; it lists the area of each city, but now their lane KMs of roadway.