The Shift | 113.08m | 38s | Edgar | MCM Partnership

What do you think of this project?

  • Total voters
    35
David A said:
Fairly sure that 27% is actually still quite a bit higher than 19%. Perhaps good marketing can make it seem a lot better, however I would disagree that it is a red herring.

Of course office vacancy is not the only measure of success, although Edmonton's growth rate has been fairly strong recently too.
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True, in one sense 27 is a fair bit higher than 19. In another sense on a scale of 1-100 it’s not much higher.

In the end though, the number itself doesn’t matter, it’s the effect of the number, and the reason I say it’s a red herring is that it hasn’t affected the vibrancy of downtown. It’s as busy as ever, and getting busier. Ironically the increase in the vacancy rate is having the opposite effect. The red herring was the low vacancy rate in past years.

For years a large percentage of Calgary’s B and C space was leased but was contingency space that was often empty. Sometimes used but if used, it was used very inefficiently. You’d be amazed at how much B and C space was used solely as storage!

The big increase in the vacancy rate is mostly in that older stock, and is really only a change on paper. Instead of office space that’s leased but empty, it’s now being turned into residential. 4,000 units currently, but the city wants to convert 6 million square feet by 2034, adding roughly 10000 units.

Nobody’s waiting for a corporate miracle, they’re creating their own residential miracle.
 
On a scale of 1 to 100, the difference between 19 and 27 is not that large, but I don't know of any city anywhere close to 100% vacancy, so I feel that is a moot point or if you prefer, red herring.

27 is actually 42% higher than 19, so not insignificant or a "red herring". However, I agree vibrancy is also important, although fairly subjective.

We are also trying to improve vibrancy in our downtown through a number of residential projects like the The Shift and a number of our own office to residential conversions, so back to the topic at hand.
 
David A said:
On a scale of 1 to 100, the difference between 19 and 27 is not that large, but I don't know of any city anywhere close to 100% vacancy, so I feel that is a moot point or if you prefer, red herring.

27 is actually 42% higher than 19, so not insignificant or a "red herring". However, I agree vibrancy is also important, although fairly subjective.
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IMO, vibrancy is really the only important factor. You walk around downtown Calgary or beltline and there's people everywhere, businesses everywhere and construction everywhere. It has triple the vibrancy Edmonton's downtown has, I would happily take Calgary's 27% vacancy, if it meant having their vibrancy.
 
I don't believe it has to be one or another and do believe our improving vacancy along with other things will lead to more vibrancy in our downtown the future.

Unfortunately, Edmonton made the mistake of not trying to attract more corporate or business offices to its downtown for decades and what we have now is the result of it.

However, I feel there is a growing realization this needs to change along with some residential happening now and more planned which will help in the future.
 
I agree the downtown is improving, but it's doing it at a snail's pace. All other major cities in Canada are seeing improvements to their downtowns, but doing it faster. I visited Ottawa, another city of similar size and their downtown and inner city in general has also left us in the dust. I remember 20 years ago you could argue Edmonton's core was on par or close to being on par with Calgary or Ottawa, but we've fallen quite far behind. Even Winnipeg is arguably progressing quicker than we are.
 
You need more jobs downtown. That's the bottom line. Jobs will attract retail and restaurant services and will attract hotels etc...Edmonton doubled in size in the last 30 years but all we get is the same copy paste suburban plazas (same restaurants) and big box stores.

All you need to do is drive on Gateway between 51 ave and whyte ave and that will tell you how miserable our city has become.
 
AntonK said:
I agree the downtown is improving, but it's doing it at a snail's pace. All other major cities in Canada are seeing improvements to their downtowns, but doing it faster. I visited Ottawa, another city of similar size and their downtown and inner city in general has also left us in the dust. I remember 20 years ago you could argue Edmonton's core was on par or close to being on par with Calgary or Ottawa, but we've fallen quite far behind. Even Winnipeg is arguably progressing quicker than we are.
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Most absurd sentence spoken by mankind EVER: “Even Winnipeg is arguably progressing quicker then we are.”
 
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AntonK said:
I agree the downtown is improving, but it's doing it at a snail's pace. All other major cities in Canada are seeing improvements to their downtowns, but doing it faster. I visited Ottawa, another city of similar size and their downtown and inner city in general has also left us in the dust. I remember 20 years ago you could argue Edmonton's core was on par or close to being on par with Calgary or Ottawa, but we've fallen quite far behind. Even Winnipeg is arguably progressing quicker than we are.
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Ottawa is benefiting from Tor pricing and even MTL becoming expensive.

We will slowly see that from Calgary going to another level, but I agree about a snail's pace.

250k moved here in the last 5 yrs and you would not know that from central Edmonton's pace of change.
 
MacLac said:
Most absorb sentence spoken by mankind EVER: “Even Winnipeg is arguably progressing quicker then we are.”
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Ah yes, this is the post that made me create an account. Someone disparaging my old hometown. :( Winnipeg may not be as big or busy as Edmonton or have a a rail system, but I don't find it absurd comparing Edmonton to Winnipeg. Winnipeg has done some great things with their downtown. The Exchange District is a gem, The Forks is evolving into a great inner city area, Boulevard Provencher is bustling, Osborne Village/Corydon is as cool as neighborhood as any in Edmonton.
Downtown Winnipeg's biggest issue is crime, but all cities suffer from it.
 
Is there any real incentive to keep businesses downtown or expand their space? I don;t think the City has such program. They City's various programs fail year in and year out by handing out subsidies to restaurants and such....subsidies should be directed toward businesses that bring employees and their money on a daily basis to the core.
 
beyondthecurve said:
Ah yes, this is the post that made me create an account. Someone disparaging my old hometown. :( Winnipeg may not be as big or busy as Edmonton or have a a rail system, but I don't find it absurd comparing Edmonton to Winnipeg. Winnipeg has done some great things with their downtown. The Exchange District is a gem, The Forks is evolving into a great inner city area, Boulevard Provencher is bustling, Osborne Village/Corydon is as cool as neighborhood as any in Edmonton.
Downtown Winnipeg's biggest issue is crime, but all cities suffer from it.
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You started it by the insane comparison….so you crated an account to come onto the YEG forum to pick fights? Clever, please seek life elsewhere on the PEG’er thread
 
MacLac said:
You started it by the insane comparison….so you crated an account to come onto the YEG forum to pick fights? Clever, please seek life elsewhere on the PEG’er thread
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They are perfectly entitled to come on here and defend their old hometown (implying they live here or another city now) against unreasonable disparagement. Just as some Calgarians have come to defend their office to residential conversion tactics, it’s a good thing to have local nuance that balances our discussions.

I actively encourage it! Edmonton struggles with perception issues from other bigger Canadian cities, and we gain absolutely nothing from punching down on a fellow prairie city. Talking about Winnipeg as if it’s some Podunk that we have nothing to learn from makes us no better than the Calgarians who talk about Edmonton in the exact same way.

@beyondthecurve , welcome officially!
 
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