The Parks | 146.91m | 45s | 35s | 13s | Pangman | Hariri Pontarini

What do you think of this project?


  • Total voters
    101
Talking about free will and blame seems like a diversion here. Yeah, people make decisions, but unless you grew up in poverty you can't tell me you wouldn't make those same decisions.

A lot of people's thinking about the homeless amounts to "I wish they weren't here." Well, they are. And we can increase social supports that keep people from falling into addiction, homelessness, etc. and help at least some of them get out... or we can keep playing an endless game of whack-a-mole.
 
This makes me think of a friend who rented a room out to someone with FASD that had nowhere else to go. Her heart was in the right place, but ultimately it didn't work out because he had problems being impulsive and not understanding the potential consequences of his actions. Due to his condition he was not able to make informed decisions and really should have been in supervised accommodations. A desire for people to experience the consequences of their own poor decisions isn't really a solution because it misses all sorts of underlying issues.
Indeed.

There is a ton of research on FASD, a lot of it from Alberta, including the Institute of Health Economics (consensus statement) here in Edmonton that shows a disproportionate amount of individuals with FASD interact with the justice and correctional systems relative to those in the general population. "In 2011/12, it cost an average of $114,000 per year per prisoner in federal prison, much more than it costs to provide similar services - justice or otherwise - in the community. Several studies suggest 10-25% of prisoners have FASD, some push that much higher because of low diagnosis rates of FASD (must confirm birth parent drank - hard to do if the mom is dead or missing). When this conference took place, jury heard that "The jury heard evidence about a cross-sectoral program in Alberta that supports people with FASD in the community for costs below $5,000 per person served per year or $1.63 per capita, a figure that is far below correctional costs".

Throwing around statements to treat them all like criminals and that they should understand their actions and be able to make decisions like the rest of us is missing a lot of context about those living with disabilities that are homeless. You and I understand that stealing a loaf of bread is likely to result in us being arrested. Better yet, we also understand that punching a police officer that is cuffing us for stealing the loaf of bread will result in even more consequences. Not having the literal part of the brain that helps you understand consequences makes it incredibly difficult to make decisions that result in a better future when they don't even know how to manage money or not steal things.

On the contrary, we need to look at the homeless population and consider that a very high proportion of them can't make decisions on their own without wraparound supports instead of thinking of sending them the way of the correctional system as the first stop. The consequences of doing so are huge and expensive. I realize that empathy for those that are homeless is at an all time low given the state of our City; however, that doesn't mean you should toss out critical thinking altogether.

Perhaps questioning why these people have FASD in the first place would be a good place to start? Could it be that settlers opened up liquor stores on reserves 50 years ago without any plan on the downstream effects of doing so? Its much easier to say that the majority of homeless people should just know what they are doing and treat them as criminals just as its super easy to say that street level retail only makes sense in Edmonton and that pedways are bad without considering the fact that there are seniors and disabled people that should have the same right to access the City as able bodied people. It is incredibly disheartening to read the entitlement and ignorance on this board on a regular basis. I had to make an account to post this in hopes that people rethink some of their opinions and maybe approach issues with more empathy in the future.
 
Indeed.

There is a ton of research on FASD, a lot of it from Alberta, including the Institute of Health Economics (consensus statement) here in Edmonton that shows a disproportionate amount of individuals with FASD interact with the justice and correctional systems relative to those in the general population. "In 2011/12, it cost an average of $114,000 per year per prisoner in federal prison, much more than it costs to provide similar services - justice or otherwise - in the community. Several studies suggest 10-25% of prisoners have FASD, some push that much higher because of low diagnosis rates of FASD (must confirm birth parent drank - hard to do if the mom is dead or missing). When this conference took place, jury heard that "The jury heard evidence about a cross-sectoral program in Alberta that supports people with FASD in the community for costs below $5,000 per person served per year or $1.63 per capita, a figure that is far below correctional costs".

Throwing around statements to treat them all like criminals and that they should understand their actions and be able to make decisions like the rest of us is missing a lot of context about those living with disabilities that are homeless. You and I understand that stealing a loaf of bread is likely to result in us being arrested. Better yet, we also understand that punching a police officer that is cuffing us for stealing the loaf of bread will result in even more consequences. Not having the literal part of the brain that helps you understand consequences makes it incredibly difficult to make decisions that result in a better future when they don't even know how to manage money or not steal things.

On the contrary, we need to look at the homeless population and consider that a very high proportion of them can't make decisions on their own without wraparound supports instead of thinking of sending them the way of the correctional system as the first stop. The consequences of doing so are huge and expensive. I realize that empathy for those that are homeless is at an all time low given the state of our City; however, that doesn't mean you should toss out critical thinking altogether.

Perhaps questioning why these people have FASD in the first place would be a good place to start? Could it be that settlers opened up liquor stores on reserves 50 years ago without any plan on the downstream effects of doing so? Its much easier to say that the majority of homeless people should just know what they are doing and treat them as criminals just as its super easy to say that street level retail only makes sense in Edmonton and that pedways are bad without considering the fact that there are seniors and disabled people that should have the same right to access the City as able bodied people. It is incredibly disheartening to read the entitlement and ignorance on this board on a regular basis. I had to make an account to post this in hopes that people rethink some of their opinions and maybe approach issues with more empathy in the future.

And this is best written and well thought out post of the week (if not the year).

Well done.
 
"On the contrary, we need to look at the homeless population and consider that a very high proportion of them can't make decisions on their own without wraparound supports instead of thinking of sending them the way of the correctional system as the first stop. The consequences of doing so are huge and expensive. I realize that empathy for those that are homeless is at an all time low given the state of our City; however, that doesn't mean you should toss out critical thinking altogether."
Bolded text - I do agree. Putting 'homeless' in prisons will do nothing. They require other types of support. Being in general public is not going to help and poses a greater risk to their wellbeing. And there's a difference between homeless and thugs.
 
Bolded text - I do agree. Putting 'homeless' in prisons will do nothing. They require other types of support. Being in general public is not going to help and poses a greater risk to their wellbeing. And there's a difference between homeless and thugs.
100%. Many people are homeless due to family trauma, disabilities, systemic injustices. And one of the worst things we can do is allow them to be preyed on by criminals. And yes, many of those criminals also have reasonings for their life choices that we can have compassion for. But we also shouldn’t accept their behaviour when it severely hurts others. And many low level criminals target those with unstable housing. Whether for prostitution, selling drugs, petty theft, gang activity, etc.

When we don’t acknowledge that some of the people on the streets are bad people with bad intentions, it hurts our ability to help the others who desire improvement and with the right supports are capable of a much better life.

Too much policing/imprisonment isn’t the solution, and too much compassion, just let them do whatever they want in public or just throw millions into housing without the right precautions, doesn’t work either.

Part of the generational trauma that continues these issues is us allowing drug dealers to target vulnerable people, whose lives then spiral, which leaves their children at severe risk of the same cycles. I’ve got multiple friends with adopted children who I bet really wish more had been done to stop the drug dealer that took advantage of their parents to the point of their OD. Letting the criminals hang around the Stanley Milner, LRT stations, encampments, supportive housing, etc only hurts the people we are trying to help.
 
Parks 1 now showing on Google Maps

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Just looked again at the renders… is this thing seriously not going to have any park facing CRUs… what the actual fuck. The first rendering looks like mostly brick walls facing the park. Gonna be Edmonton’s main downtown park and you put a wall facing?? Or North Americans really THAT bad at urban planning and designing anything not geared towards a car? Please tell me I’m wrong and there won’t be a giant BRICK WALL facing the park… great way to make sure the park is super sketchy is having no eyes on it. Imagine the offerings at Manchester square, but facing this park…
IMG_0924.jpeg

Edit: maybe “brick walls 2” is the property line, so shouldn’t count. But was this thing maybe designed before the park was planned? And they were just to cheap to change?
 
^ That plus there will be a "tunnel" connector to the park from 108th Street with CRUs on both sides of the tunnel. On the contrary, I think the design has handled access to the Park better than the City design has allowed for (as Ian mentioned).
 
It's not being cheap and no there are not CRUs facing the park as you still need a 'back of house' for loading and logistics and all, especially for such a large building.

But if you look at the park design, it does not welcome the west in particularly well and has a 'pavilion' focussing eastward with its plaza and green space.

The better opportunities will be from the redevelopment of BPs and the lot west of it to front the park in a more meaningful way.
I agree to a point, but back of house/loading does not have to be visible or ugly. I’m not saying this is a bad building at all, and like archited said the render might not be final. I just wish it was a little bit better. You basically win the lottery by being one of the only buildings directly connected to the park and you just ignore it? How rare it is to have a building IN the park rather than across the road.

IMG_0925.png


Not the best example but this is the back side of the building I lived in in Dublin. The CRUs were walk through and had entrances on both the front and the back. We’re getting so close to good, fully thought out design, but just still not there. There are very limited spots in Edmonton where you can sit for a view of anything but a road. Even the river valley is under serviced for such an offering. We used to always go to Courtyard beside the MacDonald for the view even though we didn’t enjoy the food lol.
 

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