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ETS Bus and General Transit Improvements

Actually, you are the one who used the words misleading, smoking gun, conspiracy and doing their jobs in bad faith.
 
I agree with those that think the numbers in the report were inflated. I haven't run the numbers on potential service hours, but, the amount of buses that are suggested to be required makes zero sense at all.

The 747 has a fleet of 4 buses for the service. Round trips are scheduled to be 1 hour, requiring 2 buses at peak times.

A route from Downtown, according to Google, could be upwards of 1h 5m at peak times, so padding that, lets say 1h 15 m for a round trip time of 2h 30m. That would require 5 buses for 30 minute service. Worst case scenario you need 10 buses assigned to the service for 30 minute service, yet, Administration claims they would need 13 buses just for hourly service.

However, using 10 buses for the route with 5 deployed at once would mean that the spare ratio is 100% and that is ridiculous. Industry standard is closer to 15-20%. For the 747 I can appreciate having 4 buses, however with a larger fleet of airport buses you don't need a 100% spare ratio. I'm not even sure the report factored in combining the 747 fleet with the Downtown airport route fleet to gain efficiencies.

If you need 5 buses for Downtown, 2 for Century Park, then surely 4 spare buses should be sufficient for 11 buses total. A far cry from 18 Administration claims.
 
The_Cat said:
Ebus has routes that stop at the International Airport.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any advertising for this Ebus route to the airport. Hell, I don't even know what an Ebus is!!! Is it one of Greyhound's bus replacements?
 
The_Cat said:
Ebus has routes that stop at the International Airport.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Didn't know of this service.

Screenshot 2024-02-08 at 7.40.15 AM.png

Ebus Home - Ebus

Ebus Transportation Home Page. Navigate to the start of your journey here. Book Online Now and Save 5% on Trips.
www.myebus.ca www.myebus.ca
 
IanO said:
Interesting. Didn't know of this service.

View attachment 539049

Ebus Home - Ebus

Ebus Transportation Home Page. Navigate to the start of your journey here. Book Online Now and Save 5% on Trips.
www.myebus.ca www.myebus.ca
Click to expand...
Sorry but who would use this service for $42? I just looked and an Uber from center of DT to YEG is $43. I imagine a cab is probably around the same
 
EdwardEdm said:
I agree with those that think the numbers in the report were inflated. I haven't run the numbers on potential service hours, but, the amount of buses that are suggested to be required makes zero sense at all.

The 747 has a fleet of 4 buses for the service. Round trips are scheduled to be 1 hour, requiring 2 buses at peak times.

A route from Downtown, according to Google, could be upwards of 1h 5m at peak times, so padding that, lets say 1h 15 m for a round trip time of 2h 30m. That would require 5 buses for 30 minute service. Worst case scenario you need 10 buses assigned to the service for 30 minute service, yet, Administration claims they would need 13 buses just for hourly service.

However, using 10 buses for the route with 5 deployed at once would mean that the spare ratio is 100% and that is ridiculous. Industry standard is closer to 15-20%. For the 747 I can appreciate having 4 buses, however with a larger fleet of airport buses you don't need a 100% spare ratio. I'm not even sure the report factored in combining the 747 fleet with the Downtown airport route fleet to gain efficiencies.

If you need 5 buses for Downtown, 2 for Century Park, then surely 4 spare buses should be sufficient for 11 buses total. A far cry from 18 Administration claims.
Click to expand...
I feel the numbers are inflated too. I don't know what the spare ratio would be, but this is the sort of critical evaluation of what administration presents that should regularly occur. Did any one on council question this?
 
I wonder how much a fare would have been from downtown to the International Airport. Perhaps a route from EIA to Strathcona, across the Walterdale, up 101 Street, turn at 104 Avenue, returning south on 100 Street, across the river to Scona Road, west on Sask Drive to 104 Street, and south to the airport.
 
Still it is the right decision. How much demand is there for a premium hourly or half hourly service to the airport when you can get a cab? Certainly not the people going to the outlet mall. No one is going to pay $20-30 each to save $10 on a pair of boots. When I ride the 747 on a weekend there are a number of people who go shopping there. A more frequent service would help immensely. The 747 operates from a transit centre giving this option for any number of people whereas a downtown bus does not. Besides most people live south of downtown so the 747 service makes the most sense.
just to reiterate I would estimate 90% of the people taking transit to the airport work there a better more frequent service would give workers more flexibility in the work schedule. Once the LRT is extended to Ellerslie maybe they can improve the service frequency with existing equipment.
 
The_Cat said:
I wonder how much a fare would have been from downtown to the International Airport. Perhaps a route from EIA to Strathcona, across the Walterdale, up 101 Street, turn at 104 Avenue, returning south on 100 Street, across the river to Scona Road, west on Sask Drive to 104 Street, and south to the airport.
Click to expand...
I suspect it would have been the same as the existing 747.
 
Depends as they really needed to make the Downtown Express a motor coach, not an ETS bus.

$30-40 would have made sense.
 
EdwardEdm said:
I agree with those that think the numbers in the report were inflated. I haven't run the numbers on potential service hours, but, the amount of buses that are suggested to be required makes zero sense at all.
Click to expand...
With a little bit more time I dug into the figures quoted to provide the service.

Option 1 for 60 minute service was quoted as $4.1 million the first year, and would decrease to $2.5 million in later years with 40% farebox recovery.
Option 2 for 30 minute service was quoted as $5.9 million the first year, and would decrease to $3.5 million in later years with 40% farebox recovery.

I did not see any figures that stated the number of service hours requested.

The easiest way I think to compare this with recent data is the 73's hours being redistributed as this was an overall increase to the ETS Operating Budget as this came out of a different portion of the City's budget (LRT reserve).

Page 29

This budget was given as $6.456 million, expected revenue of $1.739 million for a net increase of $4.717 million. (That allows for a 27% fare recovery, incidentally).

So, looking at the raw numbers without fare recovery, $6.456 million to redistribute all the service from the 73 and yet they are suggesting a 30 minute airport service would cost nearly as much as all of the service on the 73?
No. Something is fishy with Administrations numbers. Maybe there are contingencies built in. I don't know. But, running 5-6 buses on a 2.5-3 hour round trip shouldn't cost the same as the 73 with all of the weekday service it had.
However Administration arrived at those numbers, I think they twisted them to present options that would be unpalatable to council. Mission accomplished.
 
IanO said:
Depends as they really needed to make the Downtown Express a motor coach, not an ETS bus.

$30-40 would have made sense.
Click to expand...
If we're still talking about the proposed service, the report clearly stated regular transit buses outfitted with luggage racks, like the 747's fleet.
 
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