Valley Line LRT/ Valley Line West | ?m | ?s | City of Edmonton

Yes but both trainsets on the Capital and Metro Line (U2 and SD-160) are Siemens products so you're only dealing with one manufacturer. And besides, Calgary was already doing it successfully before Edmonton did: they introduced the SD-160s on their LRT alongside the U2s before we did on ours. By contrast nobody to my knowledge is running both Bombardier and Hyundai Rotem low-floor trains on the same line.
I’m assuming these Valley Line trains sadly won’t be interoperable, as in mixed double-consists? It’s not necessarily bad to have gone with another manufacturer, if they did specify interoperability, but at that point it would’ve probably have been better to sole-source to Alstom to provide more Flexities, considering these trains can’t operate on the Capital/Metro lines.

The main downside I can see about this is unnecessarily short (single) consists at times.

(Edited to correct typo.)
 
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All signs point to a lack of interoperability between the two fleets.

IIRC, talks were had with Alstom/Bombarding, but came to naught. Have to wonder why when they already had a fleet in being.

Then being excluded from the follow up order really makes you wonder what they were doing that the others got the order despite the negatives.

As for short single consists, that's going to be a fact of life until we receive more cars...
 
I’m not surprised. And on May 27 2023 while on Edmonton LRT train 🚆 to CFL Edmonton Elks football 🏈 game vs Winnipeg Blue Bombers I overheard 2 Edmonton football fans talking about how Calgary built their LRT system/ park & ride lots way better than Edmonton & I do agree with them.

As on Monday May 22,I went down to the Calgary Stampeders Football 🏈 game vs Edmonton Elks. I took the Calgary C-Train & got off at Banff Trail Station & walked on the Calgary Transit LRT overpass bridge connecting Banff Trail Station to McMahon Stadium 🏟.

Yep Calgary Transit LRT system is designed better✅!View attachment 483501

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Yes and no. Calgary's system does have its good points (it's more extensive, for one thing, although we will catch up if and when the Valley Line legs start to open.

The problem with Calgary is that their current LRT lines are above-ground in the downtown, which was a mistake. (A mistake we're repeating with the Valley Line.) Our downtown stations on the Capital and Metro lines are light years ahead of Calgary's downtown stations, plus ours have pedway access to nearby major buildings.

The other flaw with Calgary is that the lines don't hit all the major destinations the way Edmonton's do and will. There is no C-Train service to Foothills or Rocky View Hospitals, for example, nor to Market Mall, one of the city's largest shopping centres. Meanwhile the Metro Line serves the Royal Alex and the both the Capital and Metro Lines stop at the University hospital. The completed Valley Line (if/when) will bring both the Grey Nuns and the Misericordia onto the LRT network, meaning that all Edmonton's full-service hospitals will be LRT-accessible. And the Capital Line South provides for a station at the southwest hospital (again, if and when it opens). Edmonton also has all three major educational institutions (U of A, NAIT, MacEwan) on the existing LRT network.

The importance of having major shopping centres and hospitals on a rapid transit network cannot be overstated. Even the Lower Mainland (which, like Edmonton, started out with one simple line and has since expanded significantly), has been bringing most major shopping centres and hospitals onto the SkyTrain network (the Arbutus extension to the Millennium Line will add VGH).

Even where Calgary does have stations near major shopping centres, they're way too far. Anderson station, which "serves" Southcentre, is on the wrong side of Macleod Trail. Chinook station is a laughable two whole blocks from Chinook Centre. By contrast Southgate station and the future West Edmonton Mall station are right on the malls' parking lots.
 
Yes and no. Calgary's system does have its good points (it's more extensive, for one thing, although we will catch up if and when the Valley Line legs start to open.

The problem with Calgary is that their current LRT lines are above-ground in the downtown, which was a mistake. (A mistake we're repeating with the Valley Line.) Our downtown stations on the Capital and Metro lines are light years ahead of Calgary's downtown stations, plus ours have pedway access to nearby major buildings.

The other flaw with Calgary is that the lines don't hit all the major destinations the way Edmonton's do and will. There is no C-Train service to Foothills or Rocky View Hospitals, for example, nor to Market Mall, one of the city's largest shopping centres. Meanwhile the Metro Line serves the Royal Alex and the both the Capital and Metro Lines stop at the University hospital. The completed Valley Line (if/when) will bring both the Grey Nuns and the Misericordia onto the LRT network, meaning that all Edmonton's full-service hospitals will be LRT-accessible. And the Capital Line South provides for a station at the southwest hospital (again, if and when it opens). Edmonton also has all three major educational institutions (U of A, NAIT, MacEwan) on the existing LRT network.

The importance of having major shopping centres and hospitals on a rapid transit network cannot be overstated. Even the Lower Mainland (which, like Edmonton, started out with one simple line and has since expanded significantly), has been bringing most major shopping centres and hospitals onto the SkyTrain network (the Arbutus extension to the Millennium Line will add VGH).

Even where Calgary does have stations near major shopping centres, they're way too far. Anderson station, which "serves" Southcentre, is on the wrong side of Macleod Trail. Chinook station is a laughable two whole blocks from Chinook Centre. By contrast Southgate station and the future West Edmonton Mall station are right on the malls' parking lots.

The C-Train was built quick and they were able to capitalize well on having 3 sides of the city well-connected by the train feeding into a robust CBD. But it definitely feels less impressive beyond sheer scale and ridership levels (which are both quite important, don't get me wrong). The routing misses a lot and the stations aren't as interesting. Edmonton's LRT stations have, until the Valley Line, tended towards more differentiation in style and layout because they were built slowly over time, while some got renovated and others did not. South Campus, Bay, Coliseum, Clareview, University are all on 1 line and have more variation and interesting designs than your average C-Train station. The Valley Line will be more like this, where aside from Davies Station, the stations kind of blend together. Which makes sense - they're not focusing on 3 new stations and better able to make each unique, they're rolling out a full new line (rather than the Metro Line spur).

Some of its issues are geographic. The South Line follows an old freight rail ROW not unlike our NE corridor of the Capital route. It just isn't as blessed in terms of connecting people directly with where they want to be. But it'd be substantially more extensive to run a train down MacLeod, which would've been the better choice aside from the cost issue. It's where the major malls, office buildings, and condo towers, along with many other services are. MacLeod is Calgary's Yonge and it should have a line befitting that.

The issue with the inner NW stuff around the UofC is that Calgary did not efficiently design the space. In that area, you have the UofC, Alberta Children's Hospital, Market Mall, Foothills Hospital, McMahon Stadium, and the new University District. They're all neighbours, but are bisected by low-density residential, and take up massive amounts of land in totally different parts of that cluster of development. It's a bit of a mess. Even the parts with C-Train access - McMahon and UofC - only get it on the very periphery. In terms of better land use efficiency and active transport connectivity, they could demolish University Heights (low-density sprawl) and rebuild Foothills there. Then re-route the NW line from North Hill down 16 until University Drive, then west down 24th Ave until McLauren, then down McLauren to Market Mall, have it continue down Shaganappi until Crowchild where it can continue under the current route to Tuscany. This would, however, be expensive, and highlights how hard it is to fix these inefficient urban planning decisions from decades ago that were predicated on cars and de-centralization.

It's why Mill Woods will be a nightmare to retrofit.

Edit: one thing I think Calgary's C-Train does do better in terms of connectivity is to its various urban neighbourhoods. Bridgeland, Kensington, the East Village, and Sunalta, for example. And with the Green Line, Inglewood and Crescent Heights as well will get access. Marda Loop has BRT access too. The only gap (and it's a big one) is the Beltline-Mission and I think that's because of the geography (the area running parallel to Downtown, but also needing its own connections to Downtown despite a nearby Red Line on the periphery in the parking lots and Saddedome). This is a similar issue to Whyte/Strathcona, but at least there's more geography between the two that a like down Jasper and a line down Whyte feels less redundant.
 
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Honestly, Edmonton did a smart move playing the long game for the development of our LRT. While the expensive tunnelling downtown stunted growth of the system for a while, it gave us fantastic bones for an efficient cross-city rail system with high capacity suitable for for interlining (which Calgary will struggle with for a long time until they muster up the funds to bury the Red Line). And the connectivity of our system to major destinations is spot-on. By 2030, we’ll be caught up in terms of coverage with 5 spokes, but with a more efficient, high-capacity and useful system.
 
Honestly, Edmonton did a smart move playing the long game for the development of our LRT. While the expensive tunnelling downtown stunted growth of the system for a while, it gave us fantastic bones for an efficient cross-city rail system with high capacity suitable for for interlining (which Calgary will struggle with for a long time until they muster up the funds to bury the Red Line). And the connectivity of our system to major destinations is spot-on. By 2030, we’ll be caught up in terms of coverage with 5 spokes, but with a more efficient, high-capacity and useful system.

I do have my qualms with Edmonton's LRT routes and design choices. 97th and 127th Street via Kingsway make more sense than the current Metro Line alignment, the layout of Southgate sucks, Kingsway-RAH should be on the other side of 111, certain crossings should be tunneled or bridged, and there's the Whyte Ave question too. But, I'd rather take the LRT to Kingsway and walk over than deal with the Chinook C-Train or the mess of getting to Market Mall by transit.
 
Amen.

While the true private sector is not immune to a lack of accountability, he hits the nail on the head with a lack of honest communication, realistic timelines and a willingness to build trust with taxpayers and future riders alike.

It's beyond ridiculous and seemingly without end.
 
Lmao priceless as always. Mayor should resign for a project that was drafted, contracted and in motion years before he ever was in municipal politics?

“What really concerns me is that the mayor did not confirm that this company is not getting paid a dime of taxpayers’ money until this project is up and running but yet I am wondering who is paying for all of the testing that is being done every day tying up traffic for sometimes 10 to 15 minutes?”

Did I miss something or did Sohi say he hasn’t looked into whether TransEd is being paid by the City? The P3 contract seemed pretty clear that TransEd would receive half the project cost upfront and receive the other half in monthly installments once the line was up and running—unless something changed?
 
^ You're right @northlands

Smid (Valley Line Project Director) said TransEd is facing penalties every day for the ongoing delays and that the city is protected against increased costs, but didn’t provide specific amounts.

“There are heavy consequences on TransEd for every day there are delays. Every day counts and for some reason if it misses the summer deadline, that’s still going to be the case. There is going to be big pressure on TransEd to get this done,” he said.

TransEd has been paid monthly during the construction period based on progress to ensure taxpayers only pay for completed work, the city said. About 50 per cent of the total $1.8-billion price tag was slated to be paid during construction with the remaining 50 per cent to be spread out over the 30-year operating term.

Source: https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/valley-line-southeast-lrt-update-2
 
Yea, just looks like this letter writer didn't do their research. I am honestly surprised the Journal publishes such misinformation pieces.

Maybe, but I'd say that letter represents the sentiments of many MANY Edmontonians who are 'lay' to the process and not a related industry that may have more insight or experience with major projects.

The public sees this very differently than many on this site.
 

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