Prairie Sky Gondola | 76.2m | ?s | Prairie Sky | DIALOG

[archited]

Here's a prediction (and it is only my opinion and a feeling, so it has no real basis in fact): If Rossdale (including the Power Plant) is not developed as a very strong destination point with intense interest elements, then the Gondola will fail. It won't be obvious at first because it will be spurred along as a novelty event for -- let's say -- the better part of a year. But, without the important ingredient of a very strong destination point (and this does not include a bunch of riverside paths, benches and planters) it will share the same fate as the more recently completed 100 street funicular (long stretches between moderate use). Environmental purists who think that the river valley is an attraction unto itself have over the years constantly fooled themselves into thinking that the resource as a stand-alone is a powerful draw. A few events at summer festival time, or a few trail mavens throughout the year do not a very strong destination point make. And the ill-conceived plan to turn Rossdale into another Blatchford is most assuredly NOT the answer.
I believe the development of the Gondola is a kind of cart-before-the-horse outcome -- kind of like a road to nowhere. I doubt that there is a strong aching for people who live downtown at the north end of the Gondola to want to go to Strathcona on a regular basis and vise versa. The one ray of hope for turning this situation around is the election this fall of a Mayor and Council who are far more out-of-the-box thinking than the current group and that are open to ideas that make Rossdale a WORLD-class destination point (and not a nature preserve).

 

[David A]

I think you are right, the gondola does need a strong destination point in Rossdale to be successful. The funicular is a good example of something that has not lived up to its hype and I think the gondola would go the same way.

Sure, there are some people who are very passionate about it and will use it, but are there enough and can it be at a price point that makes sense? I think that could be a narrow range, not too much more more than a transit trip and competitive with something like Uber. If you want to improve access between downtown and Strathcona, perhaps expanding the operation of the High Level Street Car would be a much better way to go, but does the city even have money for that?

Unfortunately, the city administration is where good ideas often go to die or become unworkable and horribly expensive. I am not sure what is happening with Rossdale Power Plant, but I suspect not much at the city level as it would involve spending city some significant city money, so there is no rush to do this. So, even if the gondola itself is privately financed it would have to tie into significant city money being spent to be successful.

 

[IanO]

The funicular (other than maintenance issues) has been quite successful I would say and it is often well used.

 

[CplKlinger]

Here's a prediction (and it is only my opinion and a feeling, so it has no real basis in fact): If Rossdale (including the Power Plant) is not developed as a very strong destination point with intense interest elements, then the Gondola will fail. It won't be obvious at first because it will be spurred along as a novelty event for -- let's say -- the better part of a year. But, without the important ingredient of a very strong destination point (and this does not include a bunch of riverside paths, benches and planters) it will share the same fate as the more recently completed 100 street funicular (long stretches between moderate use). Environmental purists who think that the river valley is an attraction unto itself have over the years constantly fooled themselves into thinking that the resource as a stand-alone is a powerful draw. A few events at summer festival time, or a few trail mavens throughout the year do not a very strong destination point make. And the ill-conceived plan to turn Rossdale into another Blatchford is most assuredly NOT the answer.
I believe the development of the Gondola is a kind of cart-before-the-horse outcome -- kind of like a road to nowhere. I doubt that there is a strong aching for people who live downtown at the north end of the Gondola to want to go to Strathcona on a regular basis and vise versa. The one ray of hope for turning this situation around is the election this fall of a Mayor and Council who are far more out-of-the-box thinking than the current group and that are open to ideas that make Rossdale a WORLD-class destination point (and not a nature preserve).

Those are fair points. Perhaps the approval of the gondola could help spur the development of Rossdale, given that one of the stations would be at the power plant. It might help to speed things up if the power plant needs to be developed in relation to a station which could come online in a few years, rather than in relation to some vague vision for the area that's not close to being developed yet.

 

[TAS]

Maybe the city should consider doing with Rossdale what they did with the hangar in Blatchford - sell it below market value to a developer to get things moving. Or maybe that has been looked at.
It's time to get going on Rossdale power plant instead of having to spend more money later on to do something.

 

[archited]

I get your point @CplKlinger but the same sort of effort put into the redo of 96th Street and Kinistinaw Park has not seen those kind of rewards developed on any kind of sustaining scale -- the redo of the pavement and sidewalk has now been in place for 4 to 5 years, I believe. The Hilton-branded hotel is the boldest move and there have been several minor touch-ups and fixes but nothing that says, "hey, this place is really taking off." For Rossdale there needs to be an intense overall plan that really sets the area apart from anything that the City is used to; the City government, unfortunately, thinks in terms of what works in other parts of the City and the Planning department's ideas come from a consensus board on what most people think (we all know the axioms of "design by committee" and "boardroom-think" and the faltering solutions that come from those two misguided outcomes -- and yet they persist in Edmonton). I applaud the Prairie Sky people for their bravery but...

 

[archited]

The funicular (other than maintenance issues) has been quite successful I would say and it is often well used.

There seems to be zero proof of that... every picture that I have seen on this site shows one or two people there and, more frequently, none. "Show me the money!"

 

[CplKlinger]

I get your point @CplKlinger but the same sort of effort put into the redo of 96th Street and Kinistinaw Park has not seen those kind of rewards developed on any kind of sustaining scale -- the redo of the pavement and sidewalk has now been in place for 4 to 5 years, I believe. The Hilton-branded hotel is the boldest move and there have been several minor touch-ups and fixes but nothing that says, "hey, this place is really taking off." For Rossdale there needs to be an intense overall plan that really sets the area apart from anything that the City is used to; the City government, unfortunately, thinks in terms of what works in other parts of the City and the Planning department's ideas come from a consensus board on what most people think (we all know the axioms of "design by committee" and "boardroom-think" and the faltering solutions that come from those two misguided outcomes -- and yet they persist in Edmonton). I applaud the Prairie Sky people for their bravery but...

I get where you're coming from, and I completely agree that the area needs an overarching plan to guide (re)development. According to the city, the plant is still owned by EPCOR, and the two parties are working towards a transfer of the land to Edmonton's control, so that it can be redeveloped as part of the larger River Crossing initiative. My hope is just that as this gondola project gathers steam (assuming that it is approved), it'll just encourage the powers that be to speed up this bureaucratic work, so that we can see the redevelopment move ahead sooner than it otherwise might have.

 

[TAS]

Well, council voted 8-5 in favor of entering into framework agreement with PSG.

Edmonton council approves 1st step for gondola across North Saskatchewan River - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

In an 8-5 vote, Edmonton councillors have approved a framework for a working relationship with Prairie Sky Gondola.

globalnews.ca

 

[kcantor]

Maybe the city should consider doing with Rossdale what they did with the hangar in Blatchford - sell it below market value to a developer to get things moving. Or maybe that has been looked at.
It's time to get going on Rossdale power plant instead of having to spend more money later on to do something.

you have to remember that the current situation with the city vis a vis the cost to the city to restore the power plant is actually a pretty recent one.

until a year or so ago, the power plant was still owned by epcor and the obligation to maintain it was the owners. it was declared a provincial historic resource on october 17, 2001. at a minimum, one would have thought the city would have insisted on the building being brought up to acceptable standards for adaptive reuse as part of agreeing to the transfer of ownership. it's not as if there haven't been a host of other negotiations between the two that have been completed in the those intervening decades...

 

[IanO]

At least the remediation/abatement is complete in most areas.

 

[IanO]

Another important step forward for Prairie Sky.

Councillors Aaron Paquette, Sarah Hamilton, Tim Cartmell, Mike Nickel and Moe Banga voted against the agreement framework.

Proposed Edmonton river valley gondola climbs to design stage after council approves framework

By a split 8-5 vote, council approved an agreement framework between Prairie Sky Gondola and the city

edmontonjournal.com

 

[thommyjo]

Although I agree that if rossdale isn't developed better, it will really hurt the sustainability of the gondola, I also wonder if rossdale can develop without something like this? Sort of like the classic transit or bike lane argument. If it doesn't exist, neither will the demand. But sometimes you do build and nothing comes. Our LRT has had mixed success at getting TOD going in significant densities. But i don't see how anyone sinks money into rossdale with the current car-centric options. It's not walkable, barely bikeable, transit to there sucks. Without some new ways to move people in and out easily I can't imagine it taking off.

I think it's really a dance. Something like the gondola is needed for the development, but the development needs to happen asap to keep the gondola going long term. Again, I'm sure the investors have thought of all of this and either have the pockets/connections to make developments happen or know things we don't.

 

[IanO]

Rossdale

Edmonton Archives via

 

[cliffapotamus]

Rossdale
View attachment 301405

Edmonton Archives via

This image makes me think of one of the critiques of this project that came up this week.
real question: what kind of solid info do we have on the burial ground in the area; ie where exactly it was, does it extend under the extant power plant (i remember reading it went under the 60's addition that's gone now, but did it go under the part thats still here?) and if it does, is there anything left, under the foundations of the existing plant? I mean, the burial ground is an important part of Edmonton's history, but if it won't even be under the station, why is the station location so contentious? It just seems like a debate some archeology could resolve pretty easily.