The Shift | 113.08m | 38s | Edgar | MCM Partnership

[Out of Towner]

^ Time wasted from the codfish from which you can never reclaim sanity.

Go big or go home as they say

 

[David A]

The civic governments of Calgary and Edmonton are not that different. The new Mayor of Calgary is a dude that grew up in a working class neighborhood and has few ties to the corporate business community in Calgary. Before him, Jodi Gondek is a tried and true liberal. Before her, Naheed Nenshi is the leader of the NDP. If these Calgary mayors are more conservative than Edmonton's past mayors, it can't be by much.

Calgary's warmer climate and proximity to the Rocky Mountains is one of the biggest factors why Calgary's growth has been more dynamic than Edmonton's growth. No need to explain why tourists will choose to fly into Calgary ahead of Edmonton or why corporate executives would prefer living closer to a recreational playground than further away. Move away from Calgary's downtown and into the suburbs and they're full of boring cookie cutter houses like anywhere else.

Edmonton does have good potential though. 1) Develop the River Valley into a cross country ski destination with a Nakiska hotel village as its hub and overnight lodges aka Skoki Lodge along a say 100 mile route. 2) Transform Boyle into an area of brownstones and low rise apartments aka Hell's Kitchen in NYC. 3) Replace the High Level Bridge with something modern to improve accessibility into downtown.

I agree particularly at the mayoral level, the civic governments are not that different now. As well, Calgary has had several mayors in the past with Liberal leanings.

While the political is an interesting discussion, now back to the Shift and other projects. I doubt who the mayor is, the number of tourists to Banff or the flights to Calgary is the deciding factor about this going ahead now or not.

Also, I agree we have great potential although they mostly stopped building brownstones 100 years ago, so I wouldn't be too hopeful on that. Particularly as recreating an older style really seems beyond most Edmonton builders.

 

[constance_chlore]

Also, I agree we have great potential although they mostly stopped building brownstones 100 years ago, so I wouldn't be too hopeful on that. Particularly as recreating an older style really seems beyond most Edmonton builders.

I get the sense that it's generally rare for these sorts of buildings to be built anywhere except where rents or purchase prices are much higher. The sort of brick-clad former tenement housing you see in the LES (for example) would never get built as working-class housing today.

I would guess this is largely due to an increase through time in the cost of labor (i.e. construction wages)? But I've also heard it said that e.g. masonry is much more expensive in Alberta than eastern Canada, in which case we should be able to find ways to bring that cost down, perhaps through concerted effort in training/attracting workers?

 

[David A]

I get the sense that it's generally rare for these sorts of buildings to be built anywhere except where rents or purchase prices are much higher. The sort of brick-clad former tenement housing you see in the LES (for example) would never get built as working-class housing today.

I would guess this is largely due to an increase through time in the cost of labor (i.e. construction wages)? But I've also heard it said that e.g. masonry is much more expensive in Alberta than eastern Canada, in which case we should be able to find ways to bring that cost down, perhaps through concerted effort in training/attracting workers?

I feel part of the problem is we don't have enough construction workers familiar with the materials and techniques, so yes training and attracting them from where they do, is a good idea as is bring costs down.

I find in Edmonton at least the word brownstones now sometimes seems to be used as a bait and switch for people to promote projects that probably end up looking nothing like what we hope or imagine they would.

 

[archited]

we should be able to find ways to bring that cost down

Factory panelized construction of brick facades in workable modules is gaining in popularity and is one way to make it competitive with other exterior finishes.

 

[constance_chlore]

I feel part of the problem is we don't have enough construction workers familiar with the materials and techniques, so yes training and attracting them from where they do, is a good idea as is bring costs down.

I find in Edmonton at least the word brownstones now sometimes seems to be used as a bait and switch for people to promote projects that probably end up looking nothing like what we hope or imagine they would.

I'm hopeful that NAIT's upcoming expansion will help build this kind of capacity.

I haven't heard anyone really use the term 'brownstone' in Edmonton, but certainly the two condos in Queen Alex called Brownstone are nowhere near the quality of an actual brownstone.

 

[Out of Towner]

Factory panelized construction of brick facades in workable modules is gaining in popularity and is one way to make it competitive with other exterior finishes.

Thank-you archited. I should have used your terminology to avoid confusing others with a generalization.

 

[archited]

It seems that Edmonton still -- after 60 odd years -- has too much of the wild west-north-west expansionism in its veins. A build what benefits us vs a build that helps them on the part of about 1/2+ of the City's developers. If we keep pressing "do better" it will begin to sink in (barring that the taste of some resides somewhere akin to the soles of their shoes).

 

[Barnaby]

Checking out Nexbrick now because of @archited

Cool product I guess. Hopefully someone local uses it in the WH district.

 

[David A]

It seems that Edmonton still -- after 60 odd years -- has too much of the wild west-north-west expansionism in its veins. A build what benefits us vs a build that helps them on the part of about 1/2+ of the City's developers. If we keep pressing "do better" it will begin to sink in (barring that the taste of some resides somewhere akin to the soles of their shoes).

There are things that are a great disappointment and sometimes there are others that are an unexpected nice surprise. Unfortunately, seems to be more of the former right now.

I believe that many people who go into building and development want to (or at some point wanted to) build more quality and something they could be proud of years later. I hope they can be reminded of that.

 

[archited]

I am hopeful that the NAIT expansion project happens sooner rather than later and that it absolutely goes after modern systems and techniques related to construction to the benefit of better building solutions. Solutions like Daikin's VRV heat-pump in the HVAC realm; electric tankless water heaters for hot water production at point-of-use; low-voltage transformers for full-unit lighting solutions; PEX in lieu of copper for water piping, color-coded for line ID; Recirculating Gray water; modular exterior finishes and complete through-wall systems... on and on. If Developers employed some of these that are available to them they could dramatically reduce costs (CAPEX and OPEX) and that would allow them to put resources in other build areas and improve architectural solutions, both functionally and aesthetically.

 

[Out of Towner]

Checking out Nexbrick now because of @archited

Cool product I guess. Hopefully someone local uses it in the WH district.

Nexbrick could become popular. Nexbrick may not have all of the thermal properties that makes solid brick desirable but it has the appearance of solid brick without the high labour cost associated with constructing a solid brick veneer. Further, the common problem of repointing mortar is likely reduced if not eliminated entirely.