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VIA Rail Service Between Edmonton and Calgary

chrisvazquez7

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So I was talking to somebody today who flew in from NYC. First time in Edmonton, and as I drove him in from the airport, he asked if there was a train between Edmonton and Calgary. He didn't believe me at first when I said no.

It really bothers me how VIA Rail, a crown corporation, does not service Western Canada the way it does in Ontario and Quebec. The Calgary-Edmonton Corridor could be profitable like the Windsor-Quebec City Corridor. The track is there, it's fast. CP owns it, but VIA runs on CP tracks in Ontario. Upgrade a few sidings, it could work. Every time trains are brought up in Alberta, people always find a reason to say no. But I think it's embarrassing that a corridor of 2.9 million people does not have a similar level of service as VIA has between Toronto and Windsor, for example.

If you had trains every hour, with a travel time between 2.5 and 3 hours, and cheap enough, I think it would be attractive enough. I'm sure this is all reasonable. Yes, freight trains get in the way. Reality is, the CP line is way overbuilt right now for the level of traffic on it. There's room. The infrastructure is pretty much there. We just need to get it going!
 
I'm with you on this. We're happy to talk about HSR for decade after decade, and fund study after study on it, but can't find the will to even start with basic rail services. I guess trains just don't burn enough fossil fuels to be good enough for Alberta?
 
If one were to dig up the study from the 80s, when they were trying to save the dayliner service, you would find that to make the dayliner reliable at around 3 1/2 hours round trip versus the oft delayed 4 1/2 hours, you have to pay 2/3rd of what it takes to get to a TGV, without the associated extra earnings of a TGV, so it was decided then that the only viable option was TGV, since the extra earnings more than pay for the extra capital costs, and helps defray some of the dayliner associated. Even in the 80s, with 80s population and growth projections.

The 80s study called for a CPR alignment with mostly double track, with the ability to pass freight using high speed crossovers. I believe the more modern studies call for sterile HSR track outside of the city limits of Edmonton and Calgary.
 
I’m not familiar with that report but it seems suspect. I work for CP now, and the line is capable of high speeds, and would have the capacity for a few passenger trains with a few upgrades.

I think people were so reliant on their cars in the 80’s, that no amount of money would have been worth fixing the Dayliner service.

Times have changed. People are moving back to public transit. VIA Rail should move in and establish a service.
 
I’m not familiar with that report but it seems suspect. I work for CP now, and the line is capable of high speeds, and would have the capacity for a few passenger trains with a few upgrades.

I think people were so reliant on their cars in the 80’s, that no amount of money would have been worth fixing the Dayliner service.

Times have changed. People are moving back to public transit. VIA Rail should move in and establish a service.
The problem wasn't capability, the problem was even then competition with the 17 daily freight trains that used the line at that time. Having a trainset capable of 150 or 200 kph get stuck behind a few freight trains in each direction doesn't make for good service.

If someone is of an inclination, you can head down to the legislature and look at the reports:
https://librarysearch.assembly.ab.c...earch/results?qu=high+speed+rail&te=ILS&st=PA
 
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Hey, I just found this section exists in the forms!:D
If I could add in my two cents, I think that a TGV option would be slightly better than a hyperloop, my main reason being that while a hyperloop may have an extremely shorter travel time (about 30 mins between cities one way), I would assume that this option doesn't allow for other connections/stations outside Edmonton or Calgary, or at MOST Red Deer. This, in my opinion, discludes all of the other Cities and Towns in between Edmonton and Calgary (besides possibly Red Deer) from the deal.

Now, even though a TGV would take a longer time to get between the two large cities, I think that it would generally be better for the corridor as a whole, mainly because it allows for more connections to smaller towns. And if what chris said about the infrastructure was true, then it would cost A LOT less money to create. I can just imagine the possible stops!:)

Also, forgive if I am wrong, but doesn't the CP right-of-way run along highway 2-A? Just Asking.

Thank you.

Also, here is the link to some aricles about the hyperloop: http://calgaryherald.com/news/local...oop-duorail-pushing-for-calgary-edmonton-link
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/transpod-hyperloop-calgary-edmonton-corridor-1.4060954
https://www.theweathernetwork.com/n...tion-bullet-train-elon-musk-technology/100029
 
Potentially if you were to do CPR TGV (usually the reports have concluded that if you are doing TGV, you likely want to do a new route) you could spend even more to move to a 3/4 track setup, where you can run a local type service that can skip ahead of the freight as well. Would it generate much of a market? Probably not at first, but you could build out commuter rail inside the 45 minute travel time to Calgary and Edmonton over time.
 
I would love to see high speed rail between Calgary and Edmonton, but I don't think the population or political will is there. However I think an intercity standard train could be attainable. I'm thinking 2.5 - 3 hours travel time. The time it takes is not the only reason people would chose to take the train. It would be downtown-downtown. People wouldn't have to worry about driving or security at an airport, etc. Would love to just see VIA step in and start a service, but I doubt they would be interested right now, seeing as they're pushing hard for service through Peterborough right now. Maybe some day...... :)
 
Population is there, market is there, but yes, political will is hard.

Intercity standard is not viable because of the amount of freight. There just isn't that much capital cost savings if you were to put in enough upgrades to make it reliable. The extra speed once you put in those upgrades pays for itself, that is why every study the province has ever commissioned recommended 300 kph.
 
I work as a conductor for CP, and I can tell you first hand, the Leduc and Red Deer subdivisions are overbuilt for the amount of traffic they have right now. There are only 8-12 trains on the line right now per day. Lots of room for passenger. And I think with some strategic siding connections to make a few sections of double track, it could be quite cost-effective.
 
The thing about VIA is that they are struggling to build any new infrastructure even for the Quebec City Windsor corridor where they would most assuredly make money, its a lot harder to convince them to start a service in AB.

That being said if the business case is there why not pursue a Brightline Style service as with Florida? The service seems VERY nice and from what I can tell its been really popular, and they seem to have taken to the MTR model of funding most of it with developments at the station in Miami something that could surely be replicated in AB.
 
I think VIA is a CN institution (maybe I'm wrong) and not likely to be interested in a CP right-of-way. CP used to have a passenger commuter car that ran between Edmonton and Calgary -- the infamous Dayliner -- but suspended it shortly after regular air flights were instituted between EIA and Calgary, daily and on the hour. This rail route would have to go either one of two ways -- high-speed rail that could compete price wise and time wise with the airlines; or a "comfort train" that would have lots of onboard amenities and superior "character". AMTRAC in southern California has a wine bar, casual food service, and reading material. Something like that could work not only between Edmonton and Calgary but also with a stop in Red Deer and extensions to other AB cities. Maybe Mountaineer would be interested in leasing the rails.
 
By the 80s the problem was the Dayliner was slower (by more than an hour I recall) than the Greyhound and crashed fairly often. For some reason for the last few years it used the CN track instead of the CP track between Calgary and Edmonton making the service even worse.
 

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