Touch the Water Promenade / River Valley "Seawall"

[EdmTrekker]

why? i don't think there is a single place in that render that depicts anywhere you can actually touch the water. not one.

there's lot's of expensive concrete overlooks and one concrete pad that may be able to be used as a pier to dock to but not to put a small craft or canoe in or take one out and it's frontage is on the current side and not the lee side of the river.

there's no place to wade or splash or even to skip stones...

Small craft or canoe docking ... would require parking and a road - and In my mind better suited for access elsewhere along the river valley. Here it is for pedestrian, and those in wheelchairs etc. and some bike paths. I don't think there are natural sand bars here that people can walk out on and "skip stones". That is better done by the new LRT bridge.

 

[Avenuer]

why? i don't think there is a single place in that render that depicts anywhere you can actually touch the water. not one.

there's lot's of expensive concrete overlooks and one concrete pad that may be able to be used as a pier to dock to but not to put a small craft or canoe in or take one out and it's frontage is on the current side and not the lee side of the river.

there's no place to wade or splash or even to skip stones...

I believe one can 'touch the water' on those large, flat concrete sheet stones between the pumphouse and bridge.

 

[archited]

Another exercise in futility. This is getting worse not better.

 

[buildings]

^yes, in one document that area is referred to as "the scramble", if memory serves. Now, Edmonton was incorporated in 1892, and the river, believe it or not, is even older. In the 130 so years since, no one has considered the NSR a recreational river, save some boating; it has always been seen as a working river. So, we've had all this time to make something of the interface between the river and the people. But the river is too cold, the currents fast and dangerous, and the water levels unpredictable ( even with the dam up at Abraham lake). I don't get people's mania about "touching the water"...go...touch...get your fingers wet, but don't expect the NSR to become the Seine, (do people swim in the Seine?). Heck even New Yorkers for the most part want nothing to do with either the East or Hudson rivers. I for one would be quite happy with strolls by the river, patios where one could get a nosh or a wobbly pop to enjoy in the summer; but I'm never going to want to swim in it, or skate on it in the winter a la the Rideau canal. You want to touch the water? run your hands under a tap; that's NSR water.

 

[kcantor]

Small craft or canoe docking ... would require parking and a road - and In my mind better suited for access elsewhere along the river valley. Here it is for pedestrian, and those in wheelchairs etc. and some bike paths. I don't think there are natural sand bars here that people can walk out on and "skip stones". That is better done by the new LRT bridge.

not disagreeing with you - just pointing out that spending mega-millions of dollars on a "touch the water" project that doesn't let you touch the water is kind of stupid. call it "look at the water' if that's what you want.

as for the small craft, there are other places already that allow that and this project doesn't expand them or support them.

as for the natural sand bars - ie accidental beach - this project doesn't support them either - it doesn't even provide them garbage cans or porta-potties, never mind wheelchair accessible paths.

 

[thommyjo]

Yeah. I'm still with the crew saying being salty about the semantics of touch is missing the point. Its just a nice marketing term to represent making proximity to the river better. It doesn't bug me.

Now the actual design and imagination is what we should care about more than our ability to drink from the ledges. Thats where I'd like to see better ideas than just pathways.

The connections will be awesome to have. This plan is good. But its not as significant as they're acting it is and as it should be. Not sure they'll come up with anything different than what they've released... so I just hope its not too expensive and stays on budget. As someone who bikes around here a ton, itll be great to have these improvements. Just a missed opportunity for something more significant.

 

[Airboy]

^yes, in one document that area is referred to as "the scramble", if memory serves. Now, Edmonton was incorporated in 1892, and the river, believe it or not, is even older. In the 130 so years since, no one has considered the NSR a recreational river, save some boating; it has always been seen as a working river. So, we've had all this time to make something of the interface between the river and the people. But the river is too cold, the currents fast and dangerous, and the water levels unpredictable ( even with the dam up at Abraham lake). I don't get people's mania about "touching the water"...go...touch...get your fingers wet, but don't expect the NSR to become the Seine, (do people swim in the Seine?). Heck even New Yorkers for the most part want nothing to do with either the East or Hudson rivers. I for one would be quite happy with strolls by the river, patios where one could get a nosh or a wobbly pop to enjoy in the summer; but I'm never going to want to swim in it, or skate on it in the winter a la the Rideau canal. You want to touch the water? run your hands under a tap; that's NSR water.

Fully agree. we need to stop looking at the sedate and domesticated rivers as examples and look at this as a more unique opportunity. I love the IDEA of being able to have people that cannot access the river being given the opportunity. can we make the river bank more friendly, yes. there are now docks along the river. River Valley road could be quite the avenue if cafes are allowed along it. Lets build up the old power plant as well.

 

[kcantor]

Fully agree. we need to stop looking at the sedate and domesticated rivers as examples and look at this as a more unique opportunity. I love the IDEA of being able to have people that cannot access the river being given the opportunity. can we make the river bank more friendly, yes. there are now docks along the river. River Valley road could be quite the avenue if cafes are allowed along it. Lets build up the old power plant as well.

rivers don't need to be "sedate and domesticated" in order to be able to "touch the water". daily tidal changed in vancouver are about 4 metres per day twice a day and that's before they're influenced by storm winds etc. are they all usable 24/7/365? of course not. but there are a many measures taken to provide access and to enable "touching the water" from natural beaches to groomed stretched to sea walls and stairs and ramps and docks. are all of those measures appropriate here? perhaps not. and they certainly won't all be usable year round here. but the very fact we only have a half a year for the most part makes it more important, not less, that we get it right, especially when we're spending this kind of money to do exactly that (and failing for the most part).

 

[Airboy]

Don't get me wrong I am all for a seawall or ramp system to be able to experience the river. Being a river user for over 40 years now I know how finicky this river can be. I want to see some development but I also want to see something that can be maintained and is not closed most of the year. Now that our household has a part time wheelchair user I see the need for more accessibility. Hell I would love to sit by the river(As it is now visually) to have a beer and something to eat. There are a lot of paved MUPs that are in dire need of rebuilding, I do hope something Nice is built in this section and the original renderings were doable but that has to allow that a chunk of it will not be accessible do to high water.

 

[TAS]

View attachment 353547

I still think we can and need to do better to activate this space for people and families than what this image shows- still seems like a boring blank canvas to me despite being in a beautiful location. Not sure if this captures people's imaginations that much in terms of 'this is the place I want to be'.

I do like the spray park addition to the Rossdale plan though if that's what it is. More of that. I like the ideas below from Paris near their Champs-Elysees. More activities please. Give even more reason to ride Gondola to Rossdale.

I'd actually want to see more trees in our space, too.

 

[archited]

^^^^ Unfortunately it will never happen as long as Edmonton City Planning has a choke-hold on the process.

 

[thommyjo]

Beautiful project in Columbia. Wish we would add more elements like this.

Instagram

www.instagram.com

 

[archited]

^^^^ not until the current Ed Planning department is evicted.

 

[CplKlinger]

Last week, I sent an email to the project team about incorporating a beach. Some people here might groan because of the tone I used, but you know what they say about catching flies. Anyway, they responded this morning so I thought I'd share the conversation.

Hello,

I am a big fan of the city's vision and ambition with Touch the Water, but feel that the proposed "scrambles" for people to touch the water do not go far enough. I believe that aside from allowing people to touch the river itself, this project should provide a space along the river itself for people to play and interact with one-another. When I visited 'Accidental Beach' over the summer, there were a number of children playing a game, building sand castles, etc. They were not just touching the river, they were interacting with it in a way that is not usually possible here.

I believe that this can be implemented within the existing design framework. On page 26 of your refined design for the Rossdale phase, the rendering of Rossdale Bend shows someone physically standing on the existing sand bar. Could your team please consider adding in a way for people to get from the proposed path/overlook to this beach, and perhaps expand the beach a bit as well so that there is more room for people to play and relax on it?

This is not anything revolutionary or out-of-scope for this project, I just want the city to utilize an existing natural feature so that Edmontonions and visitors alike can get that much more out of their experience in the river valley. As well, this would greatly increase the accessibility of touching the river so that more people of varying abilities can do so, and it is not something reserved for able-bodied people as it is in the current plan.

I am not alone in these views; you can see a lot of similar feedback and ideas here if you are interested.

Thank you for your time.

Their response:

Thank you very much for your interest and support in the Touch the Water Promenade project, and for providing feedback regarding the refined design proposed for the Rossdale Area.


The project team is currently refining and further developing the proposed water access and interaction points through the current phase of work. The project team will continue to address the need for improved accessibility to the water, with consideration for changing river levels and ice forces, water safety, and operations access.


While this particular project will not be able to satisfy all potential interests with regards to river interaction, please note that your feedback and considerations for improved community connection and interaction with the river will be shared further with other City teams who are also responsible for planning the future use and activation for Edmonton’s river valley and ravine system.


Thank you again for your participation and support of the project. Please note that we will continue to share the latest engagement results, as well as project updates and next steps, online at edmonton.ca/touchthewater.

 

[CplKlinger]

Project Update - Spring 2022​

The preliminary design report for the Rossdale Area has been completed. The concept for the project has been further developed and refined based on the results of technical studies, City policy and Council direction, Indigenous engagement feedback, and what we heard (13MB) through the third stage of public and stakeholder engagement.

At this time, design for the North Shore Area has concluded with the completion of the concept phase.

Project Recognition​

Touch the Water Promenade has won an Award of Excellence from the Canadian Society of Landscape Architects. The award recognizes the project as a preeminent example of Canadian landscape architecture and how landscape architects are helping to reshape our communities by defining the places where we live, work, and play.