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Kinistinâw Park

itom987

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I never said anything about "hiding them from sight" stop putting words in my mouth. Matter of fact, it would help their plight if they were visible in a crowded area instead of where they are right now, hidden and ignored.
"They're freaking human beings, for crying out loud!" I am getting sick and tired of people trying to shame me yet offer no solution in return. I want to see solutions, I also want to see progress being made towards those solutions.
 

ChazYEG

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I never said anything about "hiding them from sight" stop putting words in my mouth. Matter of fact, it would help their plight if they were visible in a crowded area instead of where they are right now, hidden and ignored.
"They're freaking human beings, for crying out loud!" I am getting sick and tired of people trying to shame me yet offer no solution in return. I want to see solutions, I also want to see progress being made towards those solutions.

Go ahead and put a solution forward then, that doesn't involve gentrification and that addresses the issue at its roots.
If the solutions were simple, we'd have solved all f them ages ago.
One proposition: stop using cops to deal with them, create a support network with psychosocial assistance and address this as a healthcare problem, not a police matter.

That would be a good start. @kcantor also mentioned another: stop putting them in public shelters with less-than-human conditions and start working on affordable housing and transient jobs that will put them in actual livable places, where they can regain some sense of dignity and be supported by that psychosocial support network I mentioned.
 

itom987

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What you said is fine, but keep in mind that urban renewal will be an unavoidable piece of the puzzle that solves the homeless and addiction problem.
The use of the word 'gentrification' implies that the rich will take over and kick out the poor. This is obviously not the solution and should be off the table. I also agree with what Ken said.
 

The_Cat

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I think the solution could be a 1,000-piece puzzle which we have the frame and some of the pictures completed. The new complex at 95 Street and 103 Avenue is one piece. Kinistinaw Park is another. We have homeless shelters, but we still have homeless. We have DARE programs in school, but we still have drug problems. If these three people died in the Ice District, would we have blamed the Ice District for this?
 

kcantor

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this article reinforces how it’s not just homelessness that causes drug addiction or deaths from drug use. the root causes for these deaths as well as the three in kinistinaw park would be better addressed with a universal basic income and legally available known quality drugs than what we’re doing now. we will never solve homelessness - we are now approaching year 14 in our current 10 year plan to end homelessness - unless we fix the root causes that fill the pipeline of homelessness. we need to stop sticking our fingers in the dyke and start lowering the water level on the other side.

 

tkoe_

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If there were more people walking their dog in the area the deaths in the park could have been prevented.
So you don't like being criticized, but offer pearls of wisdom like this?

There are plenty of bright and dedicated people trying to address the substance abuse problem in our city, and I'm sure they'd be surprised to learn all that was needed was some dog walkers...
 

itom987

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Few answers after three die suddenly in downtown Edmonton park
Click on the link to read the article.

tkoe_ you have been on the forums for a long time, I would expect that you would know by now that more eyes on the streets will make the streets safer for everybody.
Criminals can't get away with crime in crowded places, drunks can't get away with urinating in public, someone in medical distress has a better chance of being saved.
You seem to be content with keeping the status quo, correct me if I am wrong about that. I am curious to know what your solution to the problem is?
 

kcantor

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^ ^^

eyes on the street whether they are pedestrians on the sidewalk, passengers in a bus, drivers in their own cars whether they're commuters or visitors or taxi or uber or skip the dishes drivers, restaurant and retail patrons on patios or looking through storefront or office and residential tenants are all part of the mix or kit of parts. i mentioned two others from that required kit above but it would still not be an exclusive mix and all of them need to be implemented in a complementary fashion.

the other player here is the city of edmonton because they create many of the underlying conditions that support the problem or support the solution in ways even they don't think of often enough. when the armature (96th street) doesn't access jasper avenue and when one of it's 4 blocks is one way one way while another one of them is one way the other way, it isn't conducive to eyes on the street or to way-finding; when major streets are closes for years on end with sidewalks and hoardings that don't meet cpted requirements, it is part of the problem; when sidewalks are impassible, it is part of the problem; when you license scooters and then restrict them to streets that are outright dangerous for them to navigate, it is part of the problem...

safety - both real and perceived - is a legitimate and necessary component of a vibrant city regardless of what end of the economic spectrum you are experiencing it from and neither side of that spectrum should have to compromise their safety for the other. this is one area where we really are all in it together and not recognizing that will simply ensure that neither side gets what they are entitled to.
 

TAS

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So you don't like being criticized, but offer pearls of wisdom like this?

There are plenty of bright and dedicated people trying to address the substance abuse problem in our city, and I'm sure they'd be surprised to learn all that was needed was some dog walkers...

Your point is on point but I also get the sentiment of the previous comment about dog walkers.

It reminds me of the Alberta Avenue documentary called The Avenue - people should check it out. One of the ways the residents decided to take back their community, reduce crime and enhance safety was to be more visible and reclaim spaces.
For instance, they were able to turn an underutilized park where drug deals were going on into a well utilized dog park and that helped clear out drug activities in that neighbourhood park. And they brought out a piano onto one street corner that people played and would gather to listen where there was previously prostitution (until the piano was stolen, ha).
Certainly the issues being outlined in this thread are complex, and these measures I described don't address that, but more positive activities on our streets and engaged people will help.

 
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The_Cat

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The people who died here were between 45 and 70 years old. I'm guessing they've been homeless for years. The oldest one was a client of Hope Mission. I think the sad lesson is that many addictions are chronic.
 

kcantor

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^
there is more than one sad lesson here.

while it's true that many addictions are chronic, many if not most of them are also quite manageable.

the sadder lesson here is that - particularly given that three people were killed - it's pretty much guaranteed that it wasn't their addictions that killed them.

it's pretty much a guarantee that they were killed by a dealer peddling impure drugs laced with who knows what from day to day that really killed them. and yes, i am using the word intentionally. they didn't "die from", they were "killed by" and the longer we allow that to go on the more complicit we all are in that.
 

Hugh Jazz

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The most basic first is to stop viewing addiction as a criminal problem and start viewing it as what it really is - a medical problem. Treating addictions as a criminal matter is so backwards yet still so engrained in the way our institutions operate. Imagine if our response to any other illness was to constantly arrest and charge those suffering from it? It would be ridiculous.

Once we as a broader society start to understand addiction as an illness, our institutions will begin to reflect this and will be much better able to address the issue effectively. Urban design & planning can certainly assist in making cities better for everyone, but this addiction issue goes way beyond what can be achieved by park design or eyes on the street.
 

thommyjo

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Screenshot_20210917-151259_Instagram.jpg
 

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