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Keep 102 Ave closed to vehicles

JuliallThat

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And to be clear, I am in favour of this proposal. I agree that traffic has become accustomed to the closure of 102 Ave and appears to be operating just fine. I support the idea of prioritizing pedestrians in the core of our city.

I just feel that the south half of the streetscape would have been designed differently if this idea was proposed 5 years ago. I wonder if the bicycle lane and the emergency access lane can be swapped at minimal cost - not sure if they are the same width.
That's the biggest shame, right? Just the waste of money on the protected bicycle lane that if it goes all-pedestrian isn't really necessary anymore and creates arbitrary divisions.
If it does go car-free, I think I'd prefer to just see the bicycle lane curb taken out entirely and leveled with the rest of the road area - that way it's more free flowing for bicycles and it makes emergency/maintenance vehicle access less troublesome.
 

CplKlinger

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That's the biggest shame, right? Just the waste of money on the protected bicycle lane that if it goes all-pedestrian isn't really necessary anymore and creates arbitrary divisions.
If it does go car-free, I think I'd prefer to just see the bicycle lane curb taken out entirely and leveled with the rest of the road area - that way it's more free flowing for bicycles and it makes emergency/maintenance vehicle access less troublesome.
I think I'd be ok with the protected lanes staying tbh. It helps to separate sightseers and pedestrians who are gazing at the local landmarks or going to the various stores, from cyclists/wheeled commuters who are trying to get from point A to point B more quickly. Since it ties into the downtown bike lane network, I think it'll be nice for both consistency and convenience to have a clear space for cyclists, scooter users (scooterers?), etc. to do their thing without having to worry about emergency vehicles or dodging pedestrians.

If 102 ave was planned to be car free from the beginning and the bike lanes weren't part of the design, I wouldn't complain too much. But since they're already here, I don't think they'll be a waste of space! It's sort of like how we sometimes see raised protected bike lanes and sidewalks side by side. It might not seem like that much of a difference compared to just having a wider SUP, but it's a simple way to protect cyclists and pedestrians alike.
 

Greenspace

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It's curious and kinda hilarious that we're talking bout closure AFTER the infrastructure goes in. Councillor McKeen pushed Transportation really hard to have the road/bike lane designed as a slow (20km/hr) shared street, given they were not willing to close it entirely. I think that could still be an option even if there is a grade separation between the bike lane and road (not ideal I realize).
 

DutchBoy

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I prefer the little curb. With some repainting, the current bike lanes are be more clearly for pedestrians and the lower vehicle lane just for bikes (and emergency vehicles). That's how we have it in the centre of The Hague. Maybe I'm just nostalgic.
1654123883049.png


If bollards come up there, I'm curious why we can't also copy the Dutch approach of letting emergency vehicles also use the LRT/tram lanes! I think this was an oversight for the 66 and 83 St portions of the Valley Line.

EDIT: yeah, this translates to "big market street" - creative, huh?
 
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Edmcowboy11

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It helps to separate sightseers and pedestrians who are gazing at the local landmarks or going to the various stores, from cyclists/wheeled commuters who are trying to get from point A to point B more quickly.
From 100 st to 103st the only interesting sights are the empty blank building walls, and the only entrances to stores is....oh wait nothing, except for the two mall entrances to City Centre mall. I would love to see some businesses open to the street first to create a bit of a destination. Along that stretch there isn't even much sunlight so it isn't the most pleasant area to walk. Darker and no eyes on street makes for less comfortable place for general pedestrians to walk.
 

CplKlinger

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From 100 st to 103st the only interesting sights are the empty blank building walls, and the only entrances to stores is....oh wait nothing, except for the two mall entrances to City Centre mall. I would love to see some businesses open to the street first to create a bit of a destination. Along that stretch there isn't even much sunlight so it isn't the most pleasant area to walk. Darker and no eyes on street makes for less comfortable place for general pedestrians to walk.
I understand that, it has been stared in this thread before, but as I said, the bike lanes are already here. Ideally, given that this is an lrt line, we want to assume that development will occur over time. So, since there are already bike lanes, and we want development to occur here, I am thinking about how I think it should be laid out down the road as well. Thus, I think it makes more sense to keep the bike lanes since they are already here and will get more useful as time goes on, compared to taking them out now, and then having an avoidable infrastructure deficit down the line.
 

IanO

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Need(s)ed a curb and bollard.

We continue to do this less desirable than we could.
 

IanO

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  • City council’s urban planning committee voted 3-2 in favour of converting the eastbound lane of 102 Avenue between 99 and 103 Streets into a pedestrian-only walkway, sending a one-year pilot project proposal to a city council vote on June 7. “There’s been, I would say, considerable interest from a lot of Edmontonians to sort of reimagine what this street could be — turn it into more of a vibrant, walkable area,” said Coun. Ashley Salvador, who championed the committee’s motion.
  • -Taproot
 

Edmcowboy11

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  • City council’s urban planning committee voted 3-2 in favour of converting the eastbound lane of 102 Avenue between 99 and 103 Streets into a pedestrian-only walkway, sending a one-year pilot project proposal to a city council vote on June 7. “There’s been, I would say, considerable interest from a lot of Edmontonians to sort of reimagine what this street could be — turn it into more of a vibrant, walkable area,” said Coun. Ashley Salvador, who championed the committee’s motion.
  • -Taproot
Well if this pilot happens, I hope everyone who has all this interest to reimagine the street actually steps up and makes it happen. Too often people have great ideas but when it comes to bringing those ideas to life, they step back and wait for others to do it. There is potential only if someone actually steps up to do something.
 

TAS

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Well if this pilot happens, I hope everyone who has all this interest to reimagine the street actually steps up and makes it happen. Too often people have great ideas but when it comes to bringing those ideas to life, they step back and wait for others to do it. There is potential only if someone actually steps up to do something.
Hope you take a stroll on a few occasions as well. 🙂
 

TAS

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I think downtown's best chance at a revitalization will be limiting cars in its central core over time - along with other things in the works: more green space and rec opportunities, more residential, a growing small biz sector, safety, cleanliness etc.

"Closing central Madrid to cars in 2018 resulted in a 9.5% boost to retail spending, found an analysis of 20 million anonymized transactions.

Retailers in many countries believe the majority of people travel to their stores by car. Study after study has shown this to be largely incorrect. When quizzed, retailers often overstate the numbers who they think drive; and understate modes such as walking, cycling and taking public transit. Removing cars from shopping streets often increases trade. For instance, a 2015 study of Queen Street West in Toronto’s Parkdale neighborhood found that half of the local business owners estimated that more than 25% of their customers arrived by car. In fact, it was 4%. And the number for those who walked or cycled? 72%."

 

IanO

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I think downtown's best chance at a revitalization will be limiting cars in its central core over time - along with other things in the works: more green space and rec opportunities, more residential, a growing small biz sector, safety, cleanliness etc.

"Closing central Madrid to cars in 2018 resulted in a 9.5% boost to retail spending, found an analysis of 20 million anonymized transactions.

Retailers in many countries believe the majority of people travel to their stores by car. Study after study has shown this to be largely incorrect. When quizzed, retailers often overstate the numbers who they think drive; and understate modes such as walking, cycling and taking public transit. Removing cars from shopping streets often increases trade. For instance, a 2015 study of Queen Street West in Toronto’s Parkdale neighborhood found that half of the local business owners estimated that more than 25% of their customers arrived by car. In fact, it was 4%. And the number for those who walked or cycled? 72%."


Maybe over time and that would be nice, but ~75% of people use vehicles right now and so be careful what you wish for by 'limiting' cars to any area.
 

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