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Jasper Avenue New Vision / Imagine Jasper Avenue

Avenuer

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“i wouldn’t worry about that wall section being strong enough, the curb will protect it” said the same designer who approved planter walls with acute angle corners.

View attachment 412033

at least it’s now a good match for the high quality sign post and base,
Did you submit that to 311?
 

kcantor

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108st, er Capital BLVD, wants to have a chat with you and your outlandish thinking.
you mean the ones that were not part of the original design but needed to be added afterwards? the ones bolted to paving stones that still wouldn’t have prevented this?
 
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JuliallThat

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That impact damage aside -

So many of the curbs are already so chipped after just one winter - it's got me wondering if there is a solution used in some other cities with similar climates? Metal guards perhaps? Or should we be using cut stone for curbs in high impact areas? It seems like such a shame to just resign ourselves to build infrastructure and then have it be destroyed immediately with no solution.
 

tkoe_

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I don't think the problem in this case is the design or material choice. We should be able to chose designs that are attractive and elegant, not just utilitarian and super heavy duty.

For me the real issue is maintenance. When damage occurs, which it inevitably will, the City needs to be able to repair it quickly. The problem downtown right now isn't necessarily design choices, it is poor maintenance and an inability/unwillingness to take care of what we have.
 

kcantor

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I don't think the problem in this case is the design or material choice. We should be able to chose designs that are attractive and elegant, not just utilitarian and super heavy duty.

For me the real issue is maintenance. When damage occurs, which it inevitably will, the City needs to be able to repair it quickly. The problem downtown right now isn't necessarily design choices, it is poor maintenance and an inability/unwillingness to take care of what we have.
if we're seeing this in the summertime, it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll see it in the wintertime which means it's not a maintenance issue. there is no way you will heat and hoard and close down traffic lanes to repair this kind of damage in the winter which means it will sit unrepaired for months deteriorating even more.

you're not going to repair this by crazy-gluing those chunks of concrete back in place the morning after, you're going to sawcut out enough of the wall to drill new rebar into undamaged sections, remove enough earth and planting to form the new wall sections, install your rebar and pour the concrete and come back a week later after it's cured to strip the forms and backfill and re-landscape...

in this case i think it is primarily a poor design issue more than a poor material choice (i.e. it likely needs to be an 8" or thicker wall with more than one piece of nominal rebar at the top) while lane width and curb design should minimize this type of event rather than contribute to it. there's nothing wrong with attractive and elegant but it still needs to be heavy duty enough to continue to look attractive and elegant through normal use and exposure. if this is what it immediately looks like as a result of readily anticipated events, that's a failure.
 

JuliallThat

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On the issue of bollards and also sidewalk railings, I really wish we were more inclined to install them on our sidewalks and pedestrian spaces - especially on the interface of heavy use roadways and pedestrian/cyclist areas. It's not just to stop a car from deliberately driving somewhere, but the crash protection for people and buildings.
We can talk all we want about how we're going to get pedestrians deaths down to zero, or gawk in awe at yet another car parked in the front window of small business - but if we were willing to install bollards and railings, especially at large intersections and corners, it would go a long way to keep everyone safer, and keep cars where they belong. We should just have decent looking bollards on hand that are mass produced and installed wherever makes even a lick of sense as standard practice imo.
 

tkoe_

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if we're seeing this in the summertime, it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll see it in the wintertime which means it's not a maintenance issue. there is no way you will heat and hoard and close down traffic lanes to repair this kind of damage in the winter which means it will sit unrepaired for months deteriorating even more.

you're not going to repair this by crazy-gluing those chunks of concrete back in place the morning after, you're going to sawcut out enough of the wall to drill new rebar into undamaged sections, remove enough earth and planting to form the new wall sections, install your rebar and pour the concrete and come back a week later after it's cured to strip the forms and backfill and re-landscape...

in this case i think it is primarily a poor design issue more than a poor material choice (i.e. it likely needs to be an 8" or thicker wall with more than one piece of nominal rebar at the top) while lane width and curb design should minimize this type of event rather than contribute to it. there's nothing wrong with attractive and elegant but it still needs to be heavy duty enough to continue to look attractive and elegant through normal use and exposure. if this is what it immediately looks like as a result of readily anticipated events, that's a failure.
I know better than to try to argue with you, so let me apologize unreservedly for basically suggesting we crazy-glue concrete together and admit that you are completely right that whoever came up with this design is clearly an idiot that doesn't know what they're doing. 🧐
 

kcantor

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^

okay, maybe i did go overboard with the crazy glue comment…

but you stated this isn’t a design or a material issue, it’s simply a maintenance issue.

so let me ask what you think is needed to fix/maintain this and how you would do actually do that in the winter and how much time you think it would take.
 

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