archited
Senior Member
Has anyone experienced UNCEDED: Voices of the Land in ECC west? I hope that it is drawing crowds.
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Edmonton City Centre Mall (Renovations) | ?m | 2s | LaSalle Investment Management
- Thread starter Daveography
- Start date
JNO1
Active Member
^ Unfortunately, it is not drawing crowds. Lots of interest that has not translated into attendees. Hopefully June picks up.
Greenspace
Senior Member
^Barrier to entry is the cost, which is about $30. Hopefully there are school groups/offices that are attending.
archited
Senior Member
^^ That's sad... goes back to my preaching that it has to have a lot of go-with support elements (eateries, art galleries, etc.) -- unfortunately my comments landed on deaf ears. For Doug and Idoia's sake I hope that they at least reach a break-even state. I know that a lot of effort has gone into this project involving a lot of people over a fair span of time.
cmd uw
Active Member
The Delta Hotel is a strata under separate ownership from ECC West.
kcantor
Senior Member
I attended following a Chamber function and could have sent more time than I did. The sound isolation between presentation areas could have been better but having said that it is a temporary exhibit that is still well worth seeing.
I also thought $25 for adults and $15 for youth (plus service fees) to be a little steep, particularly for many of those who you would want to attract. In hindsight it might even have made more sense to have offered “free admission” with a “suggested minimum donation” on exit rather than entry.
Offworld
Active Member
So here's my suggestion: As part of a more comprehensive agreement, the mall owner builds and sells a new hotel building to the strata owner elsewhere on the ECC West site, and in return also takes ownership of that strata unit to facilitate redevelopment of the rest of the ECC West lands. I realize that's a gross understatement in terms of the actual legal and financial framework, but unless the current owner takes ECC West by the horns and does something truly creative, they'll continue to own what's effectively become a millstone.
That strata lot otherwise just gets in the way of a fulsome, comprehensive redevelopment, and this would help modernize Edmonton's hotel stock.
Offworld
Active Member
^ A big caveat I did not mention has to do with the health of the hotel market. My understanding is that Edmonton's hotel occupancy levels are and have been pretty low for many years. You'd have to pick a pretty tight niche you'd think you'd have success with if you were to build a hotel today.
David A
Senior Member
While there are some advantages to building or expanding the hotel in City Centre Mall, there would also be a lot of cost involved and possible considerable disruption with tearing down or renovating the existing structure.
So I feel a new hotel would make more sense say on the already vacant land just south of City Centre East or elsewhere nearby. In any event yes, this may all be a moot point if occupancy has not recovered enough yet.
So I feel a new hotel would make more sense say on the already vacant land just south of City Centre East or elsewhere nearby. In any event yes, this may all be a moot point if occupancy has not recovered enough yet.
Greenspace
Senior Member
Since it's the end of an era. when the Bay left ECC they owed Oxford $18m in lease payments. It was the beginning of the pandemic and Oxford said they had to pay up or it was finally over. The Bay did not leave because they wanted to. They had not paid any lease payments since 2012.
Retail insider has an article about how RioCan had exposure to hundreds of millions of dollars in debt since 2015. My guess is The Bay rarely paid lease on any of it's properties in the last decade.
Retail insider has an article about how RioCan had exposure to hundreds of millions of dollars in debt since 2015. My guess is The Bay rarely paid lease on any of it's properties in the last decade.
husky
Active Member
That is incredible and awful at the same time. What kind of business practice is that? I am surprised The Bay lasted so long knowing that.
Private equity absolutely destroyed the business.
kcantor
Senior Member
The Bay had some not so complimentary practices regarding their real estate and relationships with landlords that long pre-dated their private equity partners.
Having said that, their disgracefully poor retail practices and offerings are likely what was ultimately responsible for their demise.
Markyeg
Active Member
Not surprising. I remember a couple years ago they got locked out of their store in Coquitlam for failure to pay rent, so this was likely standard practice across the country except for maybe a couple of their flagships.
northlands
Senior Member
Private equity who invest via LBOs for the purpose of stripping and looting all value are the ass cancer of the business world.
kcantor
Senior Member
In some cases, LBO's may well be that.
In others, the LBO can be quite successful for all parties (Heinz, Hilton, Safeway, AllTel, Dell, Kinder Morgan, Global Logistics, BioPharm etc.).
"Stripping and looting" probably only takes places when the underlying business is not strong enough or capable enough of surviving. I would put the Bay in that category as well as noting - again - that the Bay had been "stripping and looting" their own operations for a very long time before there was an LBO involved.