Charles Camsell Redevelopment | 39m | 8s | Five Oaks | Dub Architects

ChazYEG

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
1,396
Reaction score
6,287
Location
Edmonton
The ridiculousness of this excavation is mind blowing but I better be careful what I say……
You bet.
These issues are not ridiculous, recognition of them isn't, either, and of you think differently, I propose a little exercise: put yourself in the shoes of those whose families suffered the several abuses that the Canadian government (in all of it's levels) perpetrated to the indigenous people of this land. Try to understand the social and personal pain and suffering that it brought to these people and communities. Imagine that it was your forefathers there.

I am happy that nothing was found here for two reasons. The lesser of which is that now the development can proceed without any major issues.

Finding out that, at least here, there aren't any indications that indigenous people.were treated as less than animals, with absolutely no dignity, respect and humanity, even in death, as happened in the residential schools and several other places, such as hospitals, asylums, etc, is much MUCH more important than any new development.

We, as a country and a people, are just as good as the way we treat one another. That includes those who came before us, as much as those who are still to come.
 

CplKlinger

Senior Member
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 5, 2020
Messages
1,559
Reaction score
8,509
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
Finding out that, at least here, there aren't any indications that indigenous people.were treated as less than animals, with absolutely no dignity, respect and humanity, even in death, as happened in the residential schools and several other places, such as hospitals, asylums, etc, is much MUCH more important than any new development.
I agree with you 100%, but it is important that we do not let this news overshadow the horrible abuses that Indigenous Peoples were subjected to here.

"Government agents and medical teams flew into northern communities, sometimes forcibly removing those with TB,* ostensibly due to the highly contagious nature of the disease. The use of force did not end there, as patients were often subject to inhumane procedures such as experimental surgeries, forced sterilizations, and drug testing without consent. There are many stories of patients being abused and the emotional trauma of being taken away from their homes was debilitating. Not everybody made it home from the Camsell. Some families from northern communities are still looking for their loved ones in hospital records across Canada. Many of the Camsell’s former patients are buried at the Aboriginal Cemetery in St. Albert."

*This is important to note. The government didn't really care about preventing infections in those communities, or else it would have ensured that houses were properly constructed and ventilated, people weren't struggling to get by, etc. These removals were part of Canada's ongoing genocide of Indigenous Peoples just like the residential schools, sixties scoop, Inuit relocations, etc. I learned about the TB removals in a history class a couple of years back. Oftentimes, the patients and families weren't told where the patient was being brought. Not just which hospital, but not even which province in general. The patients were just taken 'down south', which was for all intents and purposes a completely foreign country to them. When someone died, their families and communities often weren't even notified. They were just left in a state of uncertainty forever. All that would be traumatic enough without the medical experiments, forced sterilizations, etc.

Whether the site itself has graves or they were all buried in St. Albert, the conditions here were just as barbaric and inhuman as elsewhere. We should not place ourselves on a pedestal, or try to differentiate between varying degrees of genocide. I know where you're coming from, and this is not meant to be an attack against you, but I feel like it's very important that we avoid trying to grade the severity of these things just on the number of graves at a given site. It glosses over the survivors who have been speaking out for many years, as well as the families of those who did not make it.
 

ChazYEG

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
1,396
Reaction score
6,287
Location
Edmonton
I agree with you 100%, but it is important that we do not let this news overshadow the horrible abuses that Indigenous Peoples were subjected to here.

"Government agents and medical teams flew into northern communities, sometimes forcibly removing those with TB,* ostensibly due to the highly contagious nature of the disease. The use of force did not end there, as patients were often subject to inhumane procedures such as experimental surgeries, forced sterilizations, and drug testing without consent. There are many stories of patients being abused and the emotional trauma of being taken away from their homes was debilitating. Not everybody made it home from the Camsell. Some families from northern communities are still looking for their loved ones in hospital records across Canada. Many of the Camsell’s former patients are buried at the Aboriginal Cemetery in St. Albert."

*This is important to note. The government didn't really care about preventing infections in those communities, or else it would have ensured that houses were properly constructed and ventilated, people weren't struggling to get by, etc. These removals were part of Canada's ongoing genocide of Indigenous Peoples just like the residential schools, sixties scoop, Inuit relocations, etc. I learned about the TB removals in a history class a couple of years back. Oftentimes, the patients and families weren't told where the patient was being brought. Not just which hospital, but not even which province in general. The patients were just taken 'down south', which was for all intents and purposes a completely foreign country to them. When someone died, their families and communities often weren't even notified. They were just left in a state of uncertainty forever. All that would be traumatic enough without the medical experiments, forced sterilizations, etc.

Whether the site itself has graves or they were all buried in St. Albert, the conditions here were just as barbaric and inhuman as elsewhere. We should not place ourselves on a pedestal, or try to differentiate between varying degrees of genocide. I know where you're coming from, and this is not meant to be an attack against you, but I feel like it's very important that we avoid trying to grade the severity of these things just on the number of graves at a given site. It glosses over the survivors who have been speaking out for many years, as well as the families of those who did not make it.
You are absolutely correct! No offense taken.
None of the harm done is less important than the other, less damaging or less worthy of sorrow.
My bad of I made it look like I feel any other way and if I offended anyone along the way

On the other hand, the knowledge that there are no mass graves is, albeit limited at it, uplifting.
I hope that, if the development goes ahead, nonetheless, the cruel history of what happened here is incorporated someway. Either by paying homage to the people who suffered, or another way (that I genuinely can't think about).
 

Macroman520

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
57
Reaction score
272
Location
Edmonton
Does anyone know the current status of this project? I understand that construction was halted while preparations were made to search a portion of the site for unmarked graves, and the resulting survey didn't turn up anything. Has work resumed since then, or have they re-evaluated their plans?
 

Airboy

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Messages
999
Reaction score
4,611
Does anyone know the current status of this project? I understand that construction was halted while preparations were made to search a portion of the site for unmarked graves, and the resulting survey didn't turn up anything. Has work resumed since then, or have they re-evaluated their plans?
There is still construction on going at Dub pace. I believe they did not find any bodies on site.
 

Avenuer

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
1,530
Reaction score
9,472
Location
Inside the Henday
From late September last year:

camel.png
 

buildings

New Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
68
Reaction score
261
back in the year whenever, I needed surgery to fix my 3rd broken nose. At the time, both the UofA and Royal Alex had big wait times so my surgeon booked some space at the Camsell. The day of, I was moved from my room to the holding area by the surgical suites. One other young fellow was there looking very scared. After we were given warm blankets as the Ativan kicked in (as they do for those never having gone through such a thing), moans from down the hall could be heard from a young lady who I presume was in labour. The moans increased in volume until they turned to blood curdling screams which when on and on.. I looked at the young fellow beside me who was now white as a sheet. After a few seconds we locked eyes and I said, "well, good thing you're next". He fainted dead away.
 
Last edited:

Top